DNP vs MD

Specialties Doctoral

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What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see how many student docs, docs, pharmacists were against the DNP program/degree and some did not have any respect for nurses. Many had horrible things to say about nursing and nurses, they said it's easy to become a nurse and not a lot of training is required. One person said, "lets face it, doctors can survive without nurses and they can have a resident do what nurses do, but if the hospital takes the doctors out the nurses will struggle and the hospital will die."

Do doctors forget that nurses are the largest group of healthcare? Doctors are never there to see the condition of their patients, they don't know if the meds are doing what they are supposed to do. Nurses are the ones that know the patients better and they let the docs know what is going on.

Some said," if nurses want to be called doctors they should go to medical school and not attending a new program DNP. To be a doctor they need more years of school." I swear some people think that years of school predict intelligence, years of school make you a better nurse, doctor, etc. Really, what's the difference in school years between DNP and MD ?

It's becoming a big war b/w nurses and doctors. Let's face it, one can't work without the other. They both need each others help.

Specializes in Critical Care.
Would a lawyer be mad/threatened if there was a 12 month course to give a paralegal all the rights/privileges of a lawyer? Would a nurse be mad/threatened if there was a 6-month degree that allowed EMTs or MAs practice nursing? What if those "degrees" in many cases were offered online?

Of course they would be mad. Is that surprising? Why should physicians not be the same?

In many states, DNP's do not have the same autonomy MD's possess. Some states are more liberal than others in how they define the scope of practice for DNP's. Instead of worrying about running down advance practice nurses, why doesn't the AMA worry about improving patient satisfaction and standards of care? Study after study have shown that patients who see NP's have far greater satisfaction scores than those who see MD's for primary care.

The AMA is purpotrating stories that NP's aren't licensed professionals and can't adequately or safely manage patients either in an in-patient setting or an out-patient setting. This has been shown not to be the case. If the AMA wants to state a position coming out against NP's..they can do it without impugning my profession. However, they see fit to employ scare tactics and fear mongering...not professional at all.

Specializes in Cardiology and ER Nursing.
Would a lawyer be mad/threatened if there was a 12 month course to give a paralegal all the rights/privileges of a lawyer? Would a nurse be mad/threatened if there was a 6-month degree that allowed EMTs or MAs practice nursing? What if those "degrees" in many cases were offered online?

Of course they would be mad. Is that surprising? Why should physicians not be the same?

Your analogy sucks and smacks of someone who lacks a fundamental understanding of what the DNP degree actually is and what it requires.

The DNP program alone is a minimum of 2 years. That however does not include the 2 to 3 years of study to obtain a Masters degree and the 4 years to obtain an undergraduate BSN.

Obtaining a DNP does not make someone a PHYSICIAN. It makes that person an expert in the practice of nursing theory.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

Favorite quote of the week:

"Look my degree member is bigger than your degree member"

:yeah::yeah:

These MDs are probably just jealous that DNPs get to do much of what they do, without the headache of being responsible for the paperwork tunnels of billing and insurance, etc. plus they still get to have a life outside of their career, not to mention they're probably not saddled with as much student debt from med school. :}

From what I've read and from what I've seen in the news the pro DNP folks seem to believe DNP = MD.

Specializes in Cardiology and ER Nursing.
Is it the intent of the DNP to further expand the legal scope of practice for APRNs?

No, transitioning to the DNP will not alter the current scope of practice for APRNs. State Nurse Practice Acts describe the scope of practice allowed, and these differ from state to state. These requirements would likely remain unchanged. The transition to the DNP will better prepare APRNs for their current roles given the calls for new models of education and the growing complexity of health care.

Will adding another credential only create more confusion about nursing degrees?

No, the DNP does not add "another layer"---just another doctoral focus. The plan will be that all practice doctorates will convert to the DNP designation to reduce confusion and differentiate those programs from research focused degrees (PhD, DNSc). All institutions that currently offer the Doctor of Nursing (ND) have chosen to become DNP programs. Those with an ND will need to contact their program about the possibility of a credential change.

Will doctorally-prepared nurses confuse patients and the public?

No. The title of Doctor is common to many disciplines and is not the domain of any one group of health professionals. Many APRNs currently hold doctoral degrees and are addressed as "doctors," which is similar to how other expert practitioners in clinical areas are addressed, including clinical psychologists, dentists, and podiatrists. In all likelihood, APRNs will retain their specialist titles after completing a doctoral program. For example, Nurse Practitioners will continue to be called Nurse Practitioners. Of course, DNPs would be expected to clearly display their credentials to insure that patients understand their preparation as a nursing provider, just as many APRNs, physicians, and other clinicians are required and currently do.

Will DNP programs prepare nurses to assume roles as physicians?

No. Nursing and medicine are distinct health disciplines that prepare clinicians to assume different roles and meet different practice expectations. DNP programs will prepare nurses for the highest level of nursing practice. Transitioning to the DNP will not alter the current scope of practice for advanced practice nurses as outlined in each state's Nurse Practice Act.

AACN - DNP - FAQs

From what I've read and from what I've seen in the news the pro DNP folks seem to believe DNP = MD.

That viewpoint is basically limited to that kook Mundinger at Columbia and her minions. That's certainly not a position embraced by the the larger NP community -- but, because it's a pretty inflammatory position to take, it gets the most attention and publicity (esp. from the physician community, naturally).

That viewpoint is basically limited to that kook Mundinger at Columbia and her minions. That's certainly not a position embraced by the the larger NP community -- but, because it's a pretty inflammatory position to take, it gets the most attention and publicity (esp. from the physician community, naturally).

This is all over the place:

Doctor Shortage? 28 States May Expand Nurses' Role - ABC News

Yet, I do not see the nursing community correct the underlying impression of NP = MD.

Specializes in Cardiology and ER Nursing.
This is all over the place:

Doctor Shortage? 28 States May Expand Nurses' Role - ABC News

Yet, I do not see the nursing community correct the underlying impression of NP = MD.

Because, an article stating Nurse Practitioners are not Physicians doesn't sell newspapers.

Specializes in adult ICU.
Your analogy sucks and smacks of someone who lacks a fundamental understanding of what the DNP degree actually is and what it requires.

The DNP program alone is a minimum of 2 years. That however does not include the 2 to 3 years of study to obtain a Masters degree and the 4 years to obtain an undergraduate BSN.

Obtaining a DNP does not make someone a PHYSICIAN. It makes that person an expert in the practice of nursing theory.

This isn't all quite true, actually, but it's a good start.

Some DNP programs will take another year full-time beyond the MSN, not two (usually 3 semesters to include a FT summer). Not all programs allow a full-time course of study, however.

DNP programs do not focus on theory exclusively, nor do they focus on research. It is a CLINICAL DOCTORATE, similar to a PharmD or a DPT. It is like it sounds.... Doctor of Nursing Practice.

Specializes in Family Practice.
I don't even know if it is threatened so much as it is just engaging in a ******* contest that a vast majority of people seem to enjoy. Look my degree member is bigger than your degree member, I'm better and more important that you, and so on and so forth.[/quote

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: You just made me chuckle!

Because, an article stating Nurse Practitioners are not Physicians doesn't sell newspapers.

My point is that our profession has done little to nothing to come out against these kinds of articles.

I can actually appreciate the physician perspective. It's much the same as the general nursing response to the skills creep going on with non nurses who are filling the role that would traditionally be filled by a nurse. We are all sorts of upset about that but cry when physicians feel the same? I'm having a little difficulty wrapping my head around this situation.

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