Would You Accept Swine Flu Vaccine?

[pagandeva2000]

My facility had a town hall meeting and announced that this year, it will be mandatory for all direct care staff to get the flu shot, and that they expect the swine flu vaccine to be ready this year, around October, and that we would be mandated to take that as well to protect the patients we care for. I am not very comfortable being mandated to take anything...this would be a brand new vaccine. Why should I be the guinea pig? Thoughts?

[DuluthMike]

so you still think getting a rushed to the market h1n1 vaccination would be foolish not to?

i say, wrong answer

a sufficient, independent peer reviewed exam of the drugs safety and effectiveness that shows it to be safe and effective would be evidence enough for me to take the vaccination. i will not until this is done. how is this a wrong answer?

[PatricParamedic]

thank you for your thoughtful response. i do respect what you have to say. i would like to point out that these are not "my" death rates. these are existing percentages found on the who website.

how is it possible that such a monster virus as the h1n1 is, "not on the minds" of the doctors & nurses at your hospital? could it be that - in context - it simply hasn't reached the point of being the issue it has been blown up to be?

any particular set of "death rates" and numbers are likely inaccurate as soon as they are written - and mine are no different - because the situation is changing so rapidly. i agree. but what is very accurate, at this stage, is the irrefutable percentages: out of millions of infections, a tiny few, truly sad, hundreds of deaths are occurring. the overwhelming number of people who get the virus are never hospitalized, and by far those who are hospitalized, are not dying. this fact far and away counter-balances those who are indeed misdiagnosed due to copd and other conditions. of course h1n1 is opportunistic. and those with decent immune systems endure it just fine.

and when you put this matter in perspective, you & i & all your friends, are far more likely to be killed in our cars.

how many of us are going to stop driving?

i never expect the public - those who are bombarded by the frenzied media, who never met a crisis they didn't love - to "get it."

but i always kinda think those of us in the trenches - those who can view the countless insidious pharmaceuticals shoved in our faces every other tv commerical - ought to be able to see the big picture. and to my way of thinking, knee-jerk, blanket vaccinations in a hurry, sounds juvenile and careless.

but that's just me. thanks for listening.

[PatricParamedic]

duluth mike:

hey, you & i are on the same page, in the matter of "sufficient, independant" study of any new drug. not a problem. my problem is, by the time enough data has been collected on these new innoculations, this so-called crisis will be long gone, and we'll be looking at the "gerbal flu" or some such panic, yet another crisis. (think vioxx, celebrex, fentanyl patch - all of which were given "a" ratings early on)

the original thread here, i think, had to do with whether those of us in the trenches trust the vaccine enough to get it. in other words - since we all know that drugs have side effects - do we as medical pros believe it's worth the risk.

my answer - just for me & my family & friends - is "no way." i don't pretend to know more than anyone else on this forum. but in my 30 years in emergency medicine, i've seen countless ill effects & death from drugs that should have just been avoided in the first place. my opinion only? this tendancy to look for the magic pill to make our lives perfect, is asinine. we're overtreating ourselves to death. no need to take my word. look up samantha collier's study for health grades. downright scary.

good luck in duluth, by the way. i truly love it up there.

[Girl Scout]

I'm curious if I actually need a vaccine now that I've had the H1N1 flu. I think I would probably refuse it at this point, not just because of that, but also because it's not been properly tested, and I don't think I like the idea of being forced.

[PatricParamedic]

girl scout -

just to be clear . . . you've already had the h1n1 flu?

wow. and you survived.

without having had a vaccine previous to that deadly illness.

an immune system actually doing what it's supposed to, in the complete absence of artificial tampering.

what a concept.

[KaroSnowQueen, RN]

I NEVER take the flu shot. I have been a nurse 25 years now, and every fall, some elderly little patient would be pressed by their family to take the flu shot : "Granny, you'll get so sick if you don't take it! We worry about you!". Invariably that little person would get miserably ill and die within two weeks. I don't care what they say about dead viruses in those vaccines, I personally don't buy it.

I most certainly will NOT take some swine flu vaccine they have thrown together in a hurry for this so-called pandemic they claim is coming.

And yes I have risk factors for the swine flu: I am overweight, I have diabetes, I have asthma, and I'm under 50. I would rather roll my dice than have this thing stuck down my throat (or in my deltoid!), and find out later that -- oops! -- it wasn't quite ready after all!!!!

[PatricParamedic]

karo snow queen -

in our neck of woods (central california coast) i know of no e.r. or ems air ambulance staff taking this vaccine. period. we just said no to a mandate, and will continue that stance. for multiple reasons.

plenty of medical professionals appreciate your position, because we take exactly the same stance. we don't begrudge any single individual from assessing the risk, then making a decision either way. that's their perogative.

what riles so many - and is just plain wrong - is the knee-jerk reaction of forced injections of the masses. bad, bad, bad idea.

as nearly as we can tell, the strong majority of medical professionals in this country are also being cautious, which we believe is very wise.

best of luck.

[misswoosie]

karo snow queen -

in our neck of woods (central california coast) i know of no e.r. or ems air ambulance staff taking this vaccine. period. we just said no to a mandate, and will continue that stance. for multiple reasons.

plenty of medical professionals appreciate your position, because we take exactly the same stance. we don't begrudge any single individual from assessing the risk, then making a decision either way. that's their perogative.

what riles so many - and is just plain wrong - is the knee-jerk reaction of forced injections of the masses. bad, bad, bad idea.

as nearly as we can tell, the strong majority of medical professionals in this country are also being cautious, which we believe is very wise.

best of luck.

and the feeling here in the uk amongst medical professionals is much the same.

we aren't sure if it will be mandated for nhs staff, but they must be aware of the general op of staff, and i think it would be unlikely that they would mandate it. maybe if it was just nurses, but they will not risk it where physicians are concerned as they are more powerful than nurses:d

[Girl Scout]

girl scout -

just to be clear . . . you've already had the h1n1 flu?

wow. and you survived.

without having had a vaccine previous to that deadly illness.

an immune system actually doing what it's supposed to, in the complete absence of artificial tampering.

what a concept.

fwiw, i initially treated myself at home with traditional flu home remedies. it was rough but i did feel better after about a week. a few days later, everything came back with a vengeance, worse than it had ever been, with a new complication of rr > 35. i sought out my doctor and was given several medications, and felt better in about 24 hours, but i was breathing normally that night.

btw, ventolin is amazing stuff. never used it before, but it was a lifesaver.

[lamazeteacher]

I NEVER take the flu shot. I have been a nurse 25 years now, and every fall, some elderly little patient would be pressed by their family to take the flu shot : "Granny, you'll get so sick if you don't take it! We worry about you!". Invariably that little person would get miserably ill and die within two weeks. I don't care what they say about dead viruses in those vaccines, I personally don't buy it.

I most certainly will NOT take some swine flu vaccine they have thrown together in a hurry for this so-called pandemic they claim is coming.

And yes I have risk factors for the swine flu: I am overweight, I have diabetes, I have asthma, and I'm under 50. I would rather roll my dice than have this thing stuck down my throat (or in my deltoid!), and find out later that -- oops! -- it wasn't quite ready after all!!!!

If you read the literature about the field tests done with H1N1 A flu vaccine, you'll see that n is high and results are good. This 70 year old little overweight person is getting it the minute it's available! I have much to live for!

I get the seasonal flu vaccine yearly, and other than a sore arm for a few days, have never had ill effects from it. I don't get the seasonal flu after being vaccinated against it.

[PatricParamedic]

lamaze teacher -

the field tests are no where near as long as new vaccines should be.

best of luck.

[tewdles, RN]

As I have said in numerous posts in different threads...

I am not sure why everyone is so panicked about this vaccine. There is nothing that suggests that this vaccine is any more dangerous that the seasonal flu vaccine. No one has responded to my request for reliable information which demonstrates that this H1NI vaccine is somehow "experimental" or "risky". Development of influenza vaccines is a well studied and annually practiced skill. Would we all feel better about this if it was H3N2?

Or H5N1? Maybe H2N2? Are we just in a panic mode in this country right now?

I WILL be getting the seasonal flu AND the H1N1 vaccines! I will be getting them AS SOON AS THEY ARE AVAILABLE TO ME. I will provide them for any and all of my patients and patient families who desire them. I will support my family in obtaining these vaccines if they decide to receive them. I will advocate for my husband with asthma to get both vaccines. I am doing these things for several reasons...

1) I do not want to get influenza of any type...I have had it before and it IS NOT FUN.

2) I do not want to take the chance that I could expose my patients or their families to these viruses unintentionally.

3) I do not want my family to be sick with influenza of any type...that could be dangerous and the illnesses are NOT fun.

4) No one in my family can afford currently to be off work with an influenza illness if we can prevent it

5) I firmly believe in the use of vaccines to promote public health

6) I do not think that we are "immune" to the possibility of a dangerous pandemic. We can prevent influenza with vaccine and we can treat the symptoms if infected but we CANNOT CURE influenza...we can only address the symptoms of the infection and possibly slow the progression with antivirals.

7) I do not want to burden my co-workers with my case load should I forego the vaccine and then become ill.

I still do not understand why people are afraid of this vaccine. And about the NO CHOICE thing... Everyone has a choice. People simply do not like the choices they have been given. If someone does not want the vaccine they will not be tied down and immunized...they can make that choice. They may not, however, be able to have their cake and eat it too....in other words, you may not chose to refuse the vaccine and then continue to work in an environment where your choice to be vaccine free may actually put the health and life of your patients at risk. That may be problematic for you, but it is NOT the same as having NO CHOICE. Stop comparing yourself to visitors! As nurses, we are PAID to advocate for our patients. Our employers have some say in the standards we must meet to practice under their umbrella. You are required to pass drug screens, to provide proof of immunity to other vaccine preventable illnesses, to submit to TB testing, etc. This requirement for vaccination is a response to a very real threat which has been identified by numerous qualified and responsible organizations. Either get the vaccine or don't, just please stop whining about it unless you can provide some information which supports this otherwise unsubstantiated fear of this vaccine. Continued whining is irresponsible and unprofessional in my humble opinion.