Top 10 Reasons Against Unions - page 8

top ten reasons why we don't want a union 10. the union doesn't write my paycheck. 9. unions would rather cause problems than work together. 8. union scale means the best workers are... Read More

  1. Visit  somenurse profile page
    6
    i have not read the 90 comments above, just jumping in.

    I have been a nurse for over 30 years, employed in all types of areas, and have moved all across the USA, licensed in multiple states.


    WOW, let me tell you, there is a difference, and a very marvelous difference,
    between working in a union hospital,
    vs.
    a non union hospital.


    OH WOW THERE IS.

    I recently worked in a hospital, which was NONunion.
    This hospital has a practice of "mandating" nurse to work beyond their scheduled hours. I don't mean, like, just in an emergency, but, on a regular almost weekly basis!!!!!
    YOu punch in, thinking you are getting off work at 3pm, and around about 2:30pm, the supervisor informs you, that no, you must work til 7:30pm, I am a mother, this routine caused me more difficulties than i can fit into a post.
    If you refuse to stay, you risk being fired. Sometimes a nurse is fired right then, on the spot, if she insists she can not stay that extra 4 hours.


    Once, i was working E.R. and was quite excited to get off work, i was on PTA at my daughter's middle school, and i was in charge of their Halloween dance. I had my car trunk full of prizes i'd coaxed various local businesses to donate, for "Best Costume" and "Scariest costume" etc.

    I was also in charge of decorating the gymnasium, when i got off work, and planned to go there about 4pm to begin that task. I had ALL the decorations already to go in my car.

    At 2:30pm, i ws told, i had to work til 7:30pm, and i won't be getting off work at 3:30pm as i'd expected.


    I have no say whatsoever in this. This happened a few times every month.

    I BEGGED, LITERALLY BEGGED her to find someone else, anyone else, to take this here "mandate", and i explained about the school dance and what's in my car, etc, that i'd make it up, and take next mandate (usually the very next day).
    No luck, i had to work, and i got off work at 8pm, cuz of crazy shift.

    The gym never got decorated, and the prizes never got wrapped up, and everyone else on the school board was angry with ME. They didn't seem to believe me, that i was FORCED TO WORK AN EXTRA 4.5 HOURS!!

    ^this kinda thing happened ALL THE TIME, but that time stands out in my mind, as besides my OWN family, i let so many down by being forced to work an extra 4 hours unexpectedly. Oddly, the hospital never hired enough nurses, even though i new several who kept trying to be hired, and they varied the amount of nurse based upon patient census, so if a bunch of patients got admitted, someone would be "mandated" to stay extra------------AND some other nurse would be mandated to come 4 hours early.

    ANOTHER STORY, even more incredulous than that one,
    is the fact, not only can this hospital force you to stay 4 hours later,oop:
    they can also force you to come in 4 hours earlier than you thought you did.
    oop:

    I used to set my VERY thick hair on rollers, and sleep in a soft-bonnet hairdryer, and wake up, take rollers out and have very nice hair for next 3 days. The dryer made nice lil humming sound, oh, i slept so soundly on those nights.
    ONe night,
    I guess the hospital was trying to call me at 2am,
    to order me to be there by 3am,
    instead of the 7am i had thought i was working when i went to bed.

    Next thing i know, there is a COP STANDING AT THE FOOT OF MY BED, SHINING A FLASHLIGHT ONTO ME,
    AND OF COURSE, I SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER,:***: thinking this was a criminal who'd broken into my house!! I have no words for the terror that went through my mind.
    I could not see HIM, had bright light in my face, and room was dark,
    and he kept saying stop screaming, but, i couldn't stop screaming. and my neighbors even heard it and came running,
    and
    it turns out,
    the hospital sent a cop to my apt, to find out why i wasn't answering the phone at 2am, (i had on hairdryer so i heard nothing, and i am a bit hard of hearing anyway)
    to tell me i had to get into work. The cop had called the apt owner,cuz you could not reach MY door without being let in,
    who then opened up my apt with HER key, and let cop in. No one bothered to turn on lights, which added to the trauma i felt to find a huge unknown man at the foot of my bed, shining his flashlight onto me.

    for real. I'm so glad, since i work in E.R. and work amongst police all the time who are in ER for accidents, assaults, etc, that i DID wear pajamas that night to bed, since i will be working around that cop, STILL, a thin nightie wasn't enough to make me feel this wasn't a severe invasion of my privacy.
    AND when i got to work, the supervisor was angry with ME!!!!!!!! SAID IT TOOK ME TOO LONG TO GET IN, cuz by time cop got into my apt, it was almost 3am anyway.

    (again, worth noting, when i went to bed, my scheduled hour was 7am, not 3am)

    and yes, my hair was still wet, for hours and hours at work, and looked quite funky that evening for a party i went to. And it was a few hours til i fully got over being frightened that badly in the dark in my own private bedroom....i was kinda shook up all morning, way inside. AND annoyed, that an employer can do this to me!!!

    I could go on, and list story after story, of thing a non union employer can do to their nurses. AND the pay is far less, too, and so are vacation and other benefits.


    BUT, when i report things like this back to my old union coworkers back east, they literally think i am exaggerating and can not imagine this kinda power over my life from my employer.
    When i worked unions,
    we had wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better pay, better health care packages, way better hours, there were distinct rules an employer had to follow if you were thought to be in trouble of any kind, all sorts of bennies to a union,
    and NO WAY could an employer send cops into your private bedroom and order you to get to work at 3am (no emergency, this was hospital routine way to cover shifts) nor order you to stay an unexpected extra 4 hours later than you thought, when there is no emergency.


    UNIONS! UNIONS!! UNIONS!!!!
    Last edit by somenurse on Nov 14, '12 : Reason: typo
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  3. Visit  uRNmyway profile page
    1
    Ok, well clearly your american unions work differently than those in Quebec. In Quebec, all hospitals are unionized and we still regularly got mandated and had crap benefits, although I have to admit Ive never heard of cops going to get nurses in their home because they werent answering their phones lol
    somenurse likes this.
  4. Visit  Esme12 profile page
    7
    Next thing i know, there is a COP STANDING AT THE FOOT OF MY BED, SHINING A FLASHLIGHT ONTO ME,
    AND OF COURSE, I SCREAMED BLOODY MURDER,:***: thinking this was a criminal who'd broken into my house!! I have no words for the terror that went through my mind.
    I could not see HIM, had bright light in my face, and room was dark,
    and he kept saying stop screaming, but, i couldn't stop screaming. and my neighbors even heard it and came running,
    and
    it turns out,
    the hospital sent a cop to my apt, to find out why i wasn't answering the phone at 2am, (i had on hairdryer so i heard nothing, and i am a bit hard of hearing anyway)
    to tell me i had to get into work. The cop had called the apt owner,cuz you could not reach MY door without being let in,
    who then opened up my apt with HER key, and let cop in. No one bothered to turn on lights, which added to the trauma i felt to find a huge unknown man at the foot of my bed, shining his flashlight onto me.

    for real. I'm so glad, since i work in E.R. and work amongst police all the time who are in ER for accidents, assaults, etc, that i DID wear pajamas that night to bed, since i will be working around that cop, STILL, a thin nightie wasn't enough to make me feel this wasn't a severe invasion of my privacy.
    AND when i got to work, the supervisor was angry with ME!!!!!!!! SAID IT TOOK ME TOO LONG TO GET IN, cuz by time cop got into my apt, it was almost 3am anyway.
    That would be the last day of my employment. Then I'd sue.
  5. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    2
    Quote from PICUPNP
    [color=#808000]top ten reasons why we don't want a union
    10. the union doesn't write my paycheck.
    9. unions would rather cause problems than work together.
    8. union scale means the best workers are carrying the worst.
    7. the people who want a union really need one.
    6. too corrupt.
    5. too political, too liberal and too partisan.
    4. unions are only about power and money for the ones who run the union.
    3. unions are negative about everything but how great they are.
    2. i like to work steady.
    1. i've got too much self respect.
    And, union leaders are often stupid and arrogant....and now I'm out of Twinkies and Ding Dongs!
    VivaLasViejas and uRNmyway like this.
  6. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    1
    Jean Marie,

    I'm having a hard time believing your cop story. You arte saying the cops barged into your apartment simply because you didn't answer your phone at 2am?
    somenurse likes this.
  7. Visit  exit96 profile page
    4
    OP has been sold a bill of goods...and got the short end of the stick. Remember, people died fighting for something we now have and are willing to let go of. Why??????? Why were people killed for trying to get fair treatment on the job? Lot's of wisdom followed the OP's rant...hopefully anyone with that view will read and learn. Reading accurate historical accounts of where/how/why unions were formed would be a good starting point.
  8. Visit  PRICHARILLAisMISSED profile page
    2
    Quote from dp1200
    Yes, the teachers have it pretty good until they bankrupt their city and state with their lavish and unsustainable salaries and benefits, as we are now seeing across the nation with public employee unions.
    I'm sorry, but I know several school teachers. Most are unionized, and NONE are paid what they're worth.
    feltshapes and laborer like this.
  9. Visit  somenurse profile page
    3
    Quote from SC_RNDude
    Jean Marie,

    I'm having a hard time believing your cop story. You arte saying the cops barged into your apartment simply because you didn't answer your phone at 2am?

    No, read it again, the cops could not reach my door, as my apt building had an outer door that one had to have a code to get into. so cops called my apt manager, who arrived there, she punched in the code, and she unlocked my apt door. No damage was done to my door, and i guess, being let into my apt via my apt manager, is not quite exactly the same as if a cop had like, kicked in my door. They did NOT kick in my apt door------------they got my apt manager to unlock my apt door. Again, i was sleeping away with my soft-bonnet hair dryer on, which makes it mostly impossible to hear anything at all, and i am slightly hard of hearing anyway.


    Yes, i would not believe it either, IF IT HAD NOT HAPPENED TO *ME* either. I'd just moved to this midwestern state, from Cape Cod, and when i called my nursing pals back on Cape Cod, they had trouble believing it too, except they did know ME, as not a liar, so, they were just amazed.


    This happened years ago, and i am still amazed.

    but yeah, this REALLY DID HAPPEN!!!
    anotherone, nicurn001, and Esme12 like this.
  10. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    1
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    No, read it again, the cops could not reach my door, as my apt building had an outer door that one had to have a code to get into. so cops called my apt manager, who arrived there, she punched in the code, and she unlocked my apt door. No damage was done to my door, and i guess, being let into my apt via my apt manager, is not quite exactly the same as if a cop had like, kicked in my door. They did NOT kick in my apt door------------they got my apt manager to unlock my apt door. Again, i was sleeping away with my soft-bonnet hair dryer on, which makes it mostly impossible to hear anything at all, and i am slightly hard of hearing anyway.


    Yes, i would not believe it either, IF IT HAD NOT HAPPENED TO *ME* either. I'd just moved to this midwestern state, from Cape Cod, and when i called my nursing pals back on Cape Cod, they had trouble believing it too, except they did know ME, as not a liar, so, they were just amazed.


    This happened years ago, and i am still amazed.

    but yeah, this REALLY DID HAPPEN!!!
    This story is so outside the norm, the outlier in other words, it has nothing to do with the issue of non-union vs union hospital.

    And unless they had reason to believe you were in danger, and simply not answering your phone would not qualify, neither your landlord or the police have the right to come into your apartment, especially at the request of your employer. I would have had a serious "chat" with them.
    somenurse likes this.
  11. Visit  somenurse profile page
    3
    Quote from SC_RNDude
    This story is so outside the norm, the outlier in other words, it has nothing to do with the issue of non-union vs union hospital.

    And unless they had reason to believe you were in danger, and simply not answering your phone would not qualify, neither your landlord or the police have the right to come into your apartment, especially at the request of your employer. I would have had a serious "chat" with them.

    Ah, i could not agree with you more------a hospital had no right to do this to me!! The hospital was facing more and more nurses NOT answering their phones at 2am, knowing it meant they'd be robbed of their sleep and forced to come in early, as this was routine thing for their employees.
    The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work. The hospital told me they felt i was not answering my phone on purpose, to avoid being forced into work 4 hours earlier than i was scheduled to do.
    This did not just happen only to ME, it happened to any nurse they felt was not answering her 2am phone call to get to work. It became annoying to the cops themselves, as well, and the cops had attitude when they'd arrive. Grrreat way for the nurse to start the day, eh?

    Again, there was NO emergency, (i've often been called in for actual emergencies, like mass casualties, or blizzards which prevented some employees from arriving, etc, which i do NOT complain at all about, the hospital could not foresee nor plan for such things)
    but
    THIS was a routine that this nonunion hospital did to cover day-to-day census increases---mandating a nurse to come in early/stay late,

    instead risking having "too low" of a nurse/patient ratio by staffing for these for these fairly predictable and routine census increases.


    And if you, SC_RNDude, actually think this is "uinrelated" to not being in union,
    if you truly think this level of crapola could happen at a UNION hospital----- that makes me wonder if you've ever worked in a union hospital?? cuz NO WAY would this nonsense be done to union nurses, nope.

    In 30+ years of nursing, all over the USA, this kinda crapola ONLY happened to me(and the other nurses working at this hospital)
    in NON-UNION hospitals. Yes, this IS related to whether or not one is a union nurse, or just a hapless employee with far less rights and no bargaining power to negotiate out a better scheduling plan, or less intrusive methods of contacting their employees.
    herring_RN, Frank31, and HazelLPN like this.
  12. Visit  somenurse profile page
    6
    Lol, off topic, but, re: //"the hospital should have only sent cops if they thought i was in danger"//,
    listen to this hilarious story. This is like, 20 years ago, long ago, whole other hospital.

    I worked nightshift, and my daughter who was 7, was home. I got off work, made her breakfast, and went to bed. I told her, "Do not wake me up, unless YOU need something. Do not wake me up for phonecalls, no matter who it is, okay? I don't evne care if it is Auntie Anna, just don't wake me up for phone calls." and i set up stuff for her to do, set my buzzer for noon, to get up and check on her.
    not the ideal set up, but, i did what i had to sometimes.

    so i went to bed. Turns out, i had accidentally brought home a set of keys that the hospital needed. The hospital called my home, to get those keys back.
    My daughter answered the phone, and said, "I can't wake up my mom!" and my daughter became flustered at their insistence, so my daughter hung up on them. They called back, and again, my small daughter said, "I CAN'T wake up my mom!" and hung up.

    The hospital, naturally, became alarmed,
    and sent 911 to my house, thinking i was like, dead on the floor or something.

    true story! I was so embarrassed!! but, i could easily see how that time, the hospital WAS trying to be helpful, and if i had been in their shoes, i would have thought the same thing they did, and did the same thing they did!

    hilarious. oh my...
  13. Visit  SC_RNDude profile page
    0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    Ah, i could not agree with you more------a hospital had no right to do this to me!! The hospital was facing more and more nurses NOT answering their phones at 2am, knowing it meant they'd be robbed of their sleep and forced to come in early, as this was routine thing for their employees.
    The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work. The hospital told me they felt i was not answering my phone on purpose, to avoid being forced into work 4 hours earlier than i was scheduled to do.
    This did not just happen only to ME, it happened to any nurse they felt was not answering her 2am phone call to get to work. It became annoying to the cops themselves, as well, and the cops had attitude when they'd arrive. Grrreat way for the nurse to start the day, eh?

    Again, there was NO emergency, (i've often been called in for actual emergencies, like mass casualties, or blizzards which prevented some employees from arriving, etc, which i do NOT complain at all about, the hospital could not foresee nor plan for such things)
    but
    THIS was a routine that this nonunion hospital did to cover day-to-day census increases---mandating a nurse to come in early/stay late,

    instead risking having "too low" of a nurse/patient ratio by staffing for these for these fairly predictable and routine census increases.


    And if you, SC_RNDude, actually think this is "uinrelated" to not being in union,
    if you truly think this level of crapola could happen at a UNION hospital----- that makes me wonder if you've ever worked in a union hospital?? cuz NO WAY would this nonsense be done to union nurses, nope.

    In 30+ years of nursing, all over the USA, this kinda crapola ONLY happened to me(and the other nurses working at this hospital)
    in NON-UNION hospitals. Yes, this IS related to whether or not one is a union nurse, or just a hapless employee with far less rights and no bargaining power to negotiate out a better scheduling plan, or less intrusive methods of contacting their employees.
    No, it likely wouldn't happen at a union hospital. My point is, it doesn't happen at non-union hospitals either. Your story is a one in a million (or more). To say non-union hospitals are bad places to work because of the situation you described is ludicrous.

    You are correct, I never have worked at a union hospital. And although not perfect (what workplace is?) I do receive fair pay, and very generous health, time-off, educational, and other benefits. I have a lot of say in my schedule. I have never experienced the extreme adversarial relationship between management and the nurses that you describe. Also, I rountinely don't answer calls from my work, and it usually is a request to come in and work extra shifts. No one has ever said a peep about it.

    What I was trying to say about the cops is that they don't have the right to just come into your home unless they think you are in danger. They have better things to do with their time anyway. Wierd things happen, so I could believe that might have happened to you once. But, now you are saying "The hospital then began using the town's police force to go to our homes to rouse us to get us into work", and that this was a common occurence.

    Nope, don't believe it!
  14. Visit  nicurn001 profile page
    2
    I think that what Jean Marie may be an outlier , but the point is that in some areas of the country nurses are harrassed by their employers by mandated extra shifts , these shifts are not staffed because the admin. refuses to employ enough nurses to cover the regular number of patients that hospital has ( I understand that emergencies lead to unexpected staffing needs , but here we are talking of regular / frequent mandating of staff ) , these employers tend to be in areas where unions are not active (conclusion drawn , from the many threads , which have touched upon this topic on AL , through the years ).
    HazelLPN and somenurse like this.


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