New national nurses union forms

K.P.A. · Dec 8, 2009

With all due respect, WHEN you are an RN "working in the trenches" continually short staffed (compromising pt safety), you may feel differently.
Best Regards,
Diane, RN

An uber-union isn't going to fix patient safety. We're still going to be squeezed. The only difference is that we will lose the power to do anything about it. We'll not have the option of fighting or changing employers. The union will tell us what we can and can't do at work. If there is a problem with patient safety that is not our responsibility per the union contract and we try to address it, we'll find ourselves out of work with no place to go. Oh they'll be nice about it. They'll give us a transfer to some neglected clinic in southwestern Alaska.

I am not opposed to unions. What I am opposed to is a work environment where there is a single employer, a single union, and no room for individual voices/choices. The original purpose of unions was to represent workers in a one employer environment. It's a best option response to a really bad employment situation. Workers enjoy much more power when they can leave a job they do not like. In this respect, anti-trust laws are great. Our present economic problems would not exist if businesses had not been allowed to grow too large to fail. When all we have is government or quasi governmental businesses...ultimately the country will fail. We've seen it happen...Innovation goes out the window too. Without the profit motive or the flexibility to make ones job easier (can't do it that way, it's not in the book), nothing changes until the whole mess collapses under it's own weight.

As for the present. If a staffing shortage compromises patient safety, surely the nurse involved will document it. Otherwise, how is anyone to know there is a problem.

charlestonsailing · Dec 8, 2009

I don't think a legitimate link can be drawn between the boom bust cycles of the economy and rich CEOs. The link can be drawn to fractional banking but not businessmen in general.

I am a nursing student and to be honest I was not aware that there was such a big union movement in nursing. That is probably due to living in a strong anti-union state.

I will learn more about the union but in general, I have always been of the feeling that unions tend to help the weak in a profession at the expense of the strong. I'll be the first to say I have no nursing experience to directly base my comments off, however I have worked in the steel industry which is heavily union. While I didn't really like my employer I can say that when the union mills were sending employees to unemployment due to inflexible contracts that made competing in a heavily international industry difficult, we were running strong.

My experience in the military is also similar to a union environment were seniority rather than proficiency is rewarded. Hopefully nursing is a different environment and as I said I'll keep an open mind.

canigraduate · Dec 8, 2009

Do you want this different world? When there are no more rich or corporations left to squeeze and there is only one employer and one union, who do you think gets squeezed?

I think there are too many assumptions in this question that prevent it from being answered. I do not believe that a national union will reduce the number of emloyers to one, I do not believe that someone will always be "squeezed", and I also do not believe that there will ever be an extinction of rich or corporations.

However, I am hopeful that a single, large union for nurses will be comparable to the AMA, which has done a lot for doctors over the years. I am hopeful that this union will have the power to help nurses change their work environments for the better. I am hopeful that it will even cause changes that will help patient safety and will promote better patient outcomes.

I think that this union can be a very good thing and I will be watching to see what happens.

kristie0701 · Dec 8, 2009

A new national union of up to 154,000 registered nurses was created in Phoenix today, replacing one of the most aggressive nurse unions in the industry and combining its membership with two other nurse-only labor groups to form National Nurses United. ...
...The NNU will be governed by three co-presidents drawn from the three founding organizations. The Massachusetts group brings 23,000 members, the UAN brings up to 45,000 and the CNA/NNOC includes 86,000 nurses. Higgins said the three-member presidency was formed as "an equal partnership." ...
http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20091207/FREE/312079955#

I hope the union will allow LPN's to join, we need a voice too! All nurses need to have the nurse practice act reformed to protect nurses against abuse of authority, abuse of power, malicious prosecution and illegal acts perpetrated by nursing boards. I know the nursing board of South Carolina and SC Labor, Licensing and Regulations is drunk with power, has no entity that oversees them and as a result stomps around like the Nazi Gestapo soldiers kicking on doors and revoking or suspending nurses licenses without any due process, any hearings or allowing the nurse, who is the target of their reckless actions, an opportunity to defend her self! I know because it happened to me recently based on the lies of an investigator with SC LLR:angryfire. It's amazing how the lies of one investigator can be allowed to destroy someones life and prevent them from earning a living:angryfire. Isn't that a violation of the US Constitution?

lamazeteacher · Dec 8, 2009

In order to do the former it has to do the latter .
As in all things you don't get something for nothing .
Me I view my dues as an investment , that has already paid me back 10x my investment .Others in the same locale may get the same rates , because employers match pay rates , but if you did not have those union rates to match everybodies income would be less . The advantage for the union nurse is in the stability they can offer nurses , knowing that there workplace enviroment will not change from one day to the next and that the next day they go to work they will not be called to the office , then escorted off the facility , minus job .

As the old song goes............."You can't have one without the other" (Title, "Love and Marriage")........... However the way other unions spend money, isn't what we want.

However, it sounds as if the emphasis here is intended to be patient oriented and nurse supported, and will rise above the Human Resources bargaining table.

Home Health Nurses are in desperate need of having very basic labor laws enforced! If you've not been to their threads here, please give them a glance. They're expected to do their paperwork (myriads, drowning repetative federal forms, and referral forms, etc.) ON THEIR UNPAID TIME!! The trees still standing groan at the sight of those charts! They need help, as their salaries are definitely not competetive and pay is not commenserate with experience or education. :angryfire

I wrote about this patient mismanagement situation, in one of the HH sites, and I'd like to share it here as an example of the conditions I've found in 15 years' work (every waking hour). I visited an elderly, BLIND wheelchair bound diabetic patient who had many complications of his disease and lived alone in a home that had open sliding glass doors that led to a swimming pool that hadn't been serviced in many a year. He could not have turned his wheelchair around, if/when he got out there, as there was inadequate space for that. On the low end table by a ratty looking sofa, was a pamphlet left by the last nurse (who may have been so rushed that he/she didn't explain it, and didn't want to make yet another referral) who had been there, providing information for blind people (not in brail). The patient asked me if I would read it to him, as he had no family or friends who visited him. I could go on.....

jujueRN · Dec 9, 2009

As the old song goes............."You can't have one without the other" (Title, "Love and Marriage")........... However the way other unions spend money, isn't what we want.
However, it sounds as if the emphasis here is intended to be patient oriented and nurse supported, and will rise above the Human Resources bargaining table.
Home Health Nurses are in desperate need of having very basic labor laws enforced! If you've not been to their threads here, please give them a glance. They're expected to do their paperwork (myriads, drowning repetative federal forms, and referral forms, etc.) ON THEIR UNPAID TIME!! The trees still standing groan at the sight of those charts! They need help, as their salaries are definitely not competetive and pay is not commenserate with experience or education. :angryfire
I wrote about this patient mismanagement situation, in one of the HH sites, and I'd like to share it here as an example of the conditions I've found in 15 years' work (every waking hour). I visited an elderly, BLIND wheelchair bound diabetic patient who had many complications of his disease and lived alone in a home that had open sliding glass doors that led to a swimming pool that hadn't been serviced in many a year. He could not have turned his wheelchair around, if/when he got out there, as there was inadequate space for that. On the low end table by a ratty looking sofa, was a pamphlet left by the last nurse (who may have been so rushed that he/she didn't explain it, and didn't want to make yet another referral) who had been there, providing information for blind people (not in brail). The patient asked me if I would read it to him, as he had no family or friends who visited him. I could go on.....

I recently started HH nursing and have to say that I am making less money than ever per hour. The paperwork is overwhelming and the nit-picking from the admin is constant. I wish there was a union at our job. I helped organize at one facility where I worked. Many nurses throughout the state have benefited even tho our union is the only nurses union in the state.

allnurses Guide · Dec 9, 2009

ALL nurses need to be paid for documentation time.

Home health nurses seem to have even more than hospital nurses.

It is not acceptable for nurses to work without pay. Employer must be made to stop stealing nurses time = money.

Not_A_Hat_Person, RN · Dec 9, 2009

A truly nurse-centered union has to make a strong stand against workplace bullying and lateral violence. It's nice when they prevent management from mistreating workers, but not when they turn a blind eye to workers mistreating other workers. Union nurses eating their young (and each other) are just as bad as non-union nurses eating their young (and each other).

Both of my parents were members of blue collar unions. Dad was an autoworker for a while; Mom was a schoolteacher and later worked for Amtrak. Their unions either ignored or actively encouraged lateral violence.

*ac* · Dec 9, 2009

an uber-union isn't going to fix patient safety. we're still going to be squeezed. the only difference is that we will lose the power to do anything about it. we'll not have the option of fighting or changing employers. the union will tell us what we can and can't do at work. if there is a problem with patient safety that is not our responsibility per the union contract and we try to address it, we'll find ourselves out of work with no place to go. oh they'll be nice about it. they'll give us a transfer to some neglected clinic in southwestern alaska.
i am not opposed to unions. what i am opposed to is a work environment where there is a single employer, a single union, and no room for individual voices/choices. the original purpose of unions was to represent workers in a one employer environment. it's a best option response to a really bad employment situation. workers enjoy much more power when they can leave a job they do not like. in this respect, anti-trust laws are great. our present economic problems would not exist if businesses had not been allowed to grow too large to fail. when all we have is government or quasi governmental businesses...ultimately the country will fail. we've seen it happen...innovation goes out the window too. without the profit motive or the flexibility to make ones job easier (can't do it that way, it's not in the book), nothing changes until the whole mess collapses under it's own weight.
as for the present. if a staffing shortage compromises patient safety, surely the nurse involved will document it. otherwise, how is anyone to know there is a problem.[/quote]
are you kidding me?? you are literally making me laugh out loud. you can document all day and night (when you're off, because you sure as heck don't have time when you're working), and nothing changes. even if there is a sentinel event (a patient dies), management finds a way to blame nurses and hang them out to dry.
in reality, very little documenting of short-staff gets done, because most of us go around with a guilt complex, feeling like if we could just work harder/faster, it would all get done. this nursing/guilt is how we are preyed upon.
there are also literally millions of near-misses due to short-staff, that don't get documented, because frankly, doing that documentation is a lot of work. i used to do it. nobody ever responded, nothing ever changed, so why bother??
do we have power because we can quit? no, there are very few jobs to go to, and it's no different, or even worse, in other places. also, documenting can be seen as complaining/whining. since there is no way to get the job done without corner-cutting, which, at the slightest provocation can be called out and ultimately, documenting will lead to termination. i've had people tell me, well then you can sue using whistle-blower laws, blah, blah, blah. if you think that will work, you just don't get it.
unions may not be perfect, i haven't really been a big union supporter in the past, but nurses and patients need help. period. the potential benefits must be weighed against the risks, as in all things.

elkpark · Dec 9, 2009

Are you kidding me?? You are literally making me laugh out loud. You can document all day and night (when you're off, because you sure as heck don't have time when you're working), and nothing changes. Even if there is a sentinel event (a patient dies), management finds a way to blame nurses and hang them out to dry.
In reality, very little documenting of short-staff gets done, because most of us go around with a guilt complex, feeling like if we could just work harder/faster, it would all get done. This nursing/guilt is how we are preyed upon.
There are also literally millions of near-misses due to short-staff, that don't get documented, because frankly, doing that documentation is a lot of work. I used to do it. Nobody ever responded, nothing ever changed, so why bother??
Do we have power because we can quit? No, there are very few jobs to go to, and it's no different, or even worse, in other places. Also, documenting can be seen as complaining/whining. Since there is no way to get the job done without corner-cutting, which, at the slightest provocation can be called out and ultimately, documenting will lead to termination. I've had people tell me, well then you can sue using whistle-blower laws, blah, blah, blah. If you think that will work, you just don't get it.
Unions may not be perfect, I haven't really been a big union supporter in the past, but nurses and patients need help. Period. The potential benefits must be weighed against the risks, as in all things.

ITA (Except for the part about the "guilt complex" :) -- personally, I don't bother documenting short-staffing not because of a guilt complex, but because I know from personal experience that it's just a waste of my time -- it accomplishes nothing.)

duke1010 · Dec 9, 2009

Look at the auto industry before making up your mind.

nicurn001 · Dec 9, 2009

Look at the auto industry before making up your mind.

This type of comment is getting rather old .

I could equally say look at Enron , Look at ING .

There management ran what had been perfectly good companies into the ground . People are all too ready to blame the downfall of companies on the 10% of unionized labor , but they never seem to acknowledge that the 90% of labor that works in nonunionized area's are adversely effected by poor management , which often looks to high risk short term gains , rather than taking the course that will maintain long term profitability for their companies.