2 yr ADN versus MSN

caliotter3 · Jan 19, 2010

Of course, finances will play a role as to which program you are able to complete with the least amount of difficulty. By reading your post, I see a strong desire for further education. If at all possible, I would advise you to maximize your time by taking the entry level MSN program. You will avoid wasted time, added expense, and duplicative work in the process. I also see the benefit of getting on track for advanced education sooner, which will help you in your career. You don't want to get stuck in the other option for whatever reason. Good luck.

TheSquire, DNP, APRN, NP · Jan 22, 2010

If you're getting a Master's you'll be eligible for federal student aid through the GradPLUS program. The ADN will be cheaper, but you'll then have to do more coursework later to get up to the level you're aiming for.

I'd suggest finding a school that does something besides the CNL for the master's, though, since it's a certification looking for a purpose.

Additionally - the clinical doctorate in nursing is the DNP, not a DNS. The research doctorate is the standard Ph.D..

Full Disclosure: I am in a master's entry program that focuses on APN core coursework and a major project/thesis in addition to the RN.

elkpark · Jan 22, 2010

Additionally - the clinical doctorate in nursing is the DNP, not a DNS. The research doctorate is the standard Ph.D.

Actually, there is a whole slew of nursing doctorates "out there" (one of the complaints many of us have about nursing academia -- there's no standardization of doctoral education, and, apart from the PhD, no one knows what any of these other doctorates "mean" or what the holder did to get the degree) -- over the years, I've encountered, in addition to the PhD, the ND (Nursing Doctorate), the DNS (Doctor of Nursing Science), the DSN (Doctor of Science in Nursing), the DNSc (Doctor of Nursing Science, again), and probably some additional ones I can't recall at the moment (and, now -- drumroll, please! -- the DNP). Some of these have more of a research focus (a "PhD lite," if you will) and some have more of a clinical focus (there have been "clinical doctorates" in nursing long before all the recent hoopla about the DNP).

TheSquire, DNP, APRN, NP · Jan 22, 2010

Actually, there is a whole slew of nursing doctorates "out there" (one of the complaints many of us have about nursing academia -- there's no standardization of doctoral education, and, apart from the PhD, no one knows what any of these other doctorates "mean" or what the holder did to get the degree) -- over the years, I've encountered, in addition to the PhD, the ND (Nursing Doctorate), the DNS (Doctor of Nursing Science), the DSN (Doctor of Science in Nursing), the DNSc (Doctor of Nursing Science, again), and probably some additional ones I can't recall at the moment (and, now -- drumroll, please! -- the DNP). Some of these have more of a research focus (a "PhD lite," if you will) and some have more of a clinical focus (there have been "clinical doctorates" in nursing long before all the recent hoopla about the DNP).

Yeah, but AFAIK the decision has been made from somewhere on high to standardize on the DNP precisely because of the plethora of doctorates and the resulting lack of meaning caused by the plurality.

elkpark · Jan 22, 2010

Yeah, but AFAIK the decision has been made from somewhere on high to standardize on the DNP precisely because of the plethora of doctorates and the resulting lack of meaning caused by the plurality.

The only proposal (not decision) I'm aware of is to make the DNP the standard for education for the four advanced practice roles (CNS, CNM, NP, CRNA). Even if that becomes official at some point (which it isn't, yet), that would have no effect on other doctoral programs in nursing -- there will still be plenty of demand for doctoral degrees with a focus other than preparing APNs. Just as, if the DNP-as-entry-to-advanced-practice proposal becomes official at some point and all the current APN MSN programs become DNP programs or disappear, there will still be lots of MSN programs with other foci -- this doesn't mean the end of the MSN, as quite a few people seem to assume.

TheSquire, DNP, APRN, NP · Jan 22, 2010

But other than the APNs, there's the EdD for education and PhD for research - what other doctoral preparation needs are there?

WyndDrivenRain, BSN, RN · Jan 23, 2010

Skip the ADN and go right to the Masters direct entry, in fact have you considered the psychiatric nurse practitioner path? With an MSW it might be right up your alley. You can do the DNP or whichever doctoral path you decide is right for you after that. You will shave years off getting to that level by by-passing the ADN route.

Sue, RN

elkpark · Jan 23, 2010

But other than the APNs, there's the EdD for education and PhD for research - what other doctoral preparation needs are there?

Gee, I don't know -- better ask the myriad of schools that offer the other degrees. And keep in mind that we are only now starting to talk about doctoral preparation for APNs rather than Master's level preparation. People have been getting all these other doctorates in nursing, with different areas of specialty/emphasis, for generations.

(BTW, the EdD is not a nursing degree -- it's an education degree.)

TheSquire, DNP, APRN, NP · Jan 23, 2010

Gee, I don't know -- better ask the myriad of schools that offer the other degrees. And keep in mind that we are only now starting to talk about doctoral preparation for APNs rather than Master's level preparation. People have been getting all these other doctorates in nursing, with different areas of specialty/emphasis, for generations.
(BTW, the EdD is not a nursing degree -- it's an education degree.)

I'm well aware that it's not a nursing degree, but is not uncommon for nurses involved in education to get. I included it because it exists already, obviating the need for a nursing-specific education degree, just as the Ph.D. obviates the need for a nursing-specific research degree. As for the alphabet soup of other degrees, it was my understanding that nursing doctorates have been around for a single generation, at best, as up until the 1960s or so nurses who received doctorates did so in other fields, such as Education or Anthropology. As you stated in your first post in this thread, the other nursing doctorates are so myriad and nonstandardized that, for the purposes of identifying their area of emphasis on sight, they're not worth the paper they're printed on (not to say that those with such degrees didn't work hard for them). I'm not entirely sure why we're bickering over this.

RE: Proposal vs. Decision - my understanding is that the DNP will be and for most purposes already is a uniform clinical degree for the reason we've both acknowledged in this thread. The 2015 deadline for all APN programs to use only the DNP is a bit silly, mostly because there's not yet enough faculty at that level to make it stick.

Moogie · Jan 23, 2010

I agree completely with Caliotter and WyndDrivenRain---don't do the ADN, go for a DEMSN program. You already have a health care background and a master's degree---and you see a future for yourself in which you will want to pursue higher education. While the CNL is indeed a new role, it would be a good preparation for you as a nurse generalist while you decide what route you eventually want to take---plus it would get you into either a PhD or DNP program much easier than an ADN and a non-nursing master's will.

Honestly, I read your post and felt exhausted just thinking about all the educational hoops through which you could be jumping if you go for an ADN. I mean, first you'd finish the ADN, then go on for a bridge program, either RN to BSN or MSN and then for the doctorate. Sure, things might change in the future and there might be some doctoral programs (PhD or DNP) that would accept someone who is very well qualified but has a bachelor's and/or master's in another field---but why take that chance? Doctoral programs are very competitive and you want to make yourself as strong a candidate as possible.

Additionally, some facilities prefer to hire BSNs (or DEMSNs) over AD graduates. You also got good advice regarding the availability of financial aid if you go for the DEMSN. BTW, very sorry you had to go through the hassle you did in the accelerated BSN program.

aquizzle · Jan 26, 2010

I was planning to complete a BSN as a second degree student. I had begun working on the pre-requisites and was notified on the 2nd day of class I was notified that I have no financial aid resources left to cover the expenses. I was awarded a scholarship through the school of nursing but it was not enough to cover even one class! I already hold two degrees, a Bachelor of Social Work (BSW) and a Master of Social Work (MSW). Employment opportunities are pretty much no existent in my neck of the woods. Moreover, health care & patient advocacy are passions of mine and I feel that nursing would allow me more opportunities to fulfill those passions. Anyway, I am looking for insight/advice about whether or not I should pursue a 2 yr Associate's Degree Program or an entry level MSN/CNL (Clinical nurse leader) program for students without BSNs, the first year is full-time & the equivalent of a BSN that allows for students to sit for the NCLEX-RN & become a Registered Nurse. I understand that the CNL is a generalist role & that most graduates start out as staff nurses. Having health care but no nursing experiencing I know that I want to pursue advanced educator but am not sure as to which area. Ultimately I want a DSN and to be a clinical faculty member--in the interim I may want to be an advanced practice nurse (Nurse Practitioner/Nurse Executive). Anyone been in a similar situation? What did you choose? All advice/opinions welcome! Thanks for the help in advance!
Woman on A Journey

I'm trying to make that same decision too. I have a B.S. in chemistry but can't afford the Accelerated BSN programs and I'm not sure I can afford the direct entry msn programs either. If I go the ADN route, there are schools in my area that allow an RN with a BS in another field to go right into an MSN program without requiring a BSN. Plus I have a 3 month old right now and can't afford daycare so i need an option that will allow me lots of flexibility and the adn does that for me. I think I'll apply to both and make my decision when I see my options. If you can afford it and you have the time, you should go the MSN route; as an RN would be extra time and coursework. Good luck!