young spring chickens or career changers?

FLmomof5 · Sep 28, 2011

There are many things at play. First of all, the young person is more likely to jump ship than the career changer, IMHO, so I don't see the potential "longevity" as being an issue for the younger nurse.

Most career changers are not in their 30s but 40s.....but, aside from that, the one in their 30s most likely has older children, if any. A 20 something female nurse is the one most likely to get pregnant....and multiple times....and then there are the infant issues that wears out the poor 20 something nurses (both male and female)..... although technically, this shouldn't be considered, one would be naive to think it isn't there for some NM's and admins. On the flip side, the older you are, the more 'other' medical issues you have at play....so that should balance it out.

Here would be my personal thoughts.....albeit...unfair to many young nurses....

The older folks, IMHO, are more 'dedicated' to being at work when they should be. They may feel beat up one morning, but they have bills to pay, children to support and co-workers expecting their arrival.....so I feel that they would be the one more likely to push themselves to work and not call out 'just cause'.

I am appalled at the current rising generation's expectations of immediate gratification and/or willing to do work that is "beneath" them. This is NOT true for all, but I have seen so much of it that it has now become what I see as common place. I knew one young man who quit a job on the first day because packing fish into cans was messy, stinky and beneath him...he hasn't worked since. Another won't "flip burgers" because he has an HVAC technician certificate, so burgers are beneath him....and he has been out of work for a year and a half. Another couldn't believe he got fired because he called off too many days during his probationary period! These same youth insist on a nice apartment, having their 'hot' car and it NOT being a clunker, the wide screen HD TV, the Xbox + Games, their laptop....ad nauseum. They want everything they had at their parents house....but don't realize that Mom and/or Dad worked 25 years to accumulate what they had and burgers and clunkers weren't beneath them!

On the clunker road....I sold my "clunker" car to DDs hubby to be (now hubby). It has no AC in FL! She wanted something 'more reliable', went and financed a brand new crotch rocket...the day before she took a pregnancy test.....+! So that vehicle is collecting dust while they make payments! They were blessed by my parents and given a 1999 Toyota Camry with only 50K miles on it! (spoiled! LOL) My point with this is that between a 20 something and a 30 something....they have a bit more life experiences and as such, these kids of 'immature' decisions are behind them (hopefully).

Although your generic NG LPN/RN has been a much more dedicated student.... I see alot of "I want my dream job" and are loath to go into LTC or HH for their first job because it isn't what they wanted. I didn't want it, but it was a job. It was HARD work! I learned a lot. And I have just received an offer for a med/surg position. It opened doors that were shut. To some extent we see the "that's beneath me" posts here on AN when someone thinks that cleaning a code brown is the CNAs job not theirs! Fluffing pillows, getting a beverage for the bed bound patient. Cleaning up vomit. I often helped my CNAs with their duties when they needed it. As a result, they helped ME!

Something else I see..... "I have to leave my job because my BF won't move." Wow. OK. I understand the military spouse thing (obviously) - but I stayed at my old job for 3 years before I could make the move to join my military spouse. My mother stayed at one hospital for a year after my dad was transfered. It took that long to get a job in the new state. Sometimes you do what you gotta do! But, if you aren't even married, why on earth would you let a BF dictate what you will do with your career?

I spent 18 yrs in IT. Because of the nature of the beast, I was laid off every 2 or 3 years. I would always have to move to a new city/state to get that next job. Yet, I see on here NGs who can't find work locally....other point out states where nurses are getting hired and the young NG doesn't want to move. [side note: there were times between IT jobs I actually took burger flipping jobs and retail jobs to bring in $.]

I see complaints about the pay for new grads....questions about the benefits (not enough or too costly)....on and on. The employer wants to know what YOU are going to do for THEM. I see a focus on what THEY are going to do for YOU. There are always the bad employers, the ones that try to get away with hiring for the least amount that they can get away with....bad ratios.... But there are good ones too! It is unlikely that you will find that one job that will be perfect. I use a pros vs cons method to make my decisions. I take it when the Pros outweigh the Cons.

Idealism is for the young. I see the more mature having had enough bumps in life to be realistic.

For me, the younger applicant would have to show me that they would stay, be teachable, be reliable and a team player more than the older applicant. Fair? Probably not.

Flame away. :chair::chair::chair::sofahider

babyNP., APRN · Sep 28, 2011

I won't flame you, but I'll just say that what you wrote does not encompass all new grads.

I was a fresh 22 year old new grad and moved to the other side of the country for my job 3 years ago and felt extraordinarily grateful that I got my dream job (NICU). My later boyfriend, now DH moved to be with me (although he hated his current job in IT and we could make much more $$ in the US than me in the UK), not the other way around.

At my annual review, I thank my manager for hiring me, for giving me a chance. It was very expensive to train me and I know she was taking a chance on someone very young (there was one gal a few months younger than me and the rest of the class was years older than us) moving across the country into a high-powered specialty where most new grads don't go. I am still very grateful and the only reason I don't say it more is because I don't want to seem like a suck-up, haha.

But I am truly very grateful. I adore my job and I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the world. The fact that I have it "all together" at the age of 25, great career, great salary, great benefits, great learning opportunities...there's nothing else to compare to that! My personal life aside, I guess, heh, but I have the best DH in the world so I'm all set.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

FLmomof5....

:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :yeah:

Life experience also counts. And true, not all young new grads fit (as FLmom said)....but it's a big issue. Also, younger new grads don't have the other work experience to deal with the duds/creeps that are in any job situation. Young ones only knew what they wish/hope/want/assume is the norm, and all else is insulting/offensive/unacceptable.

No flames from here :)

:up:

That being said, I'd also look at hopes for the future (aside from family). If the 30 y/o hopes to open up a clinic in the bowels of some 3rd world country- I'd be happy for her, and wish her all the best- getting experience elsewhere. If the 20 y/o had a lot of family ties, no inclinations about moving somewhere else- I'd give more weight to her/him.... a lot goes into who would be better....but 20 somethings are still growing their brains (physically, not just 'wisdom'.....they are incapable physically of knowing the longer term outcome of various decisions) and sowing their oats. Not up for babysitting someone to grow up (I had a lot of growing up to do as a young nurse- so no offense intended....and at 20 something you can't know what this really means- it's not a knock, but a fact based on neuropsychological and neurobiological research).

But, I'd want to interview both :)

Testa Rosa, RN · Sep 28, 2011

As a second career nurse living in the SF Bay Area with an impressive resume from my corporate life, I was passed over for the 23 year old new grad even though I was a finalist in several interviews. As an active soccer mom, I am in great shape and can run circles around many of those 23 year olds. Plus, my kids are all school aged now so my days of constant childcare issues and sleepless nights are pretty much over.

It took me a year to find a job; and the job was where I had precepted so they knew I was a capable and pliable nurse. The reality is youth and the perception of pliability will win over the hiring team every time. Can you blame them; my peers were smart, cute and energetic and made me smile everytime I saw their lovely fresh faces at school. We older new grads have a wisdom and weariness to us that can be off putting to a potential manager. Just my humble opinion.

FLmomof5 · Sep 28, 2011

You make a good point about the perception of the older grad. I feel blessed when I am one of many vying for that job and beat out the others even though I am 49!

BTW, after my PP, I saw this....

http://toughsledding.wordpress.com/2010/04/20/dear-millennials-your-parents-lied-to-you/

Even this professor says it isn't EVERYONE.....but.... :)

beckster_01, BSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

It all depends on the type of person you are talking about. I am a young nurse- 23 y/o and have been working for over a year. I started nursing school fresh out of highschool and stuck with it, so besides people who graduated early or have gone to a 2-3 year school (or both), I am about as young as a nurse can be. I don't look like I have had a ton of experience in the workplace unless you count 3 years as a PCT, but I will use my classmates in school as an example instead.

The students that started in my freshman nursing class fresh out of high school tended to be far more dedicated, motivated, and optimistic than the students who were going into nursing as a second career. We had known that we wanted to work in healthcare during high school. We volunteered, got jobs as PCT's, and had family members who were nurses that made sure we knew what the job was like. Will we get burnt out sooner? Possibly. Will we have babies, get married, move, or have other life events? Sure. But you better believe that the kids who were idealistic, naive, lazy, or went into nursing simply for job security and pay (ha!), got weeded out by sophomore A&P. They are now proud holders of a Bachelor's in Psychology or Communications (and jobless lol).

On the other hand, in MY class (I am not generalizing this at all), the students who chose nursing as a second career tended to be much less teachable, and a little more stubborn. They seemed to have a hard time learning from professors that were younger than them, were the first to argue about grades or "unfair" questions about tests, and I always heard them complaining about our teachers. In addition I have had trouble with the older nursing students doing clinical on my floor. They tend to dismiss my nursing experience with their real life experience. Yes, you may have been a CNA in LTC for 15 years, but have you ever taken care of a POD #1 CABG patient? Nope, didn't think so. It is completely different.

I am absolutely not a hiring manager, but I can guarantee that what a manager is looking for from ANY new grad is a balance between confidence, teachability, and humility. Just because I don't have kids and a mortgage does not mean I shouldn't be respected as an adult and a competent nurse.

-The Spring Chicken

Illinurse2010 · Sep 28, 2011

I know this, the 20 somethings had jobs almost immediately after school as new grads and those of us in our 30's, 40's, and 50's did get jobs but it took longer. The 20 somethings got jobs in ICU's, CCU's, ED's, and specialty units and most of the older grads went to Med Surg, ortho, tele, nursing homes, and dr offices.

nurse2033, MSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

I'd go with the qualities of the candidates. The age difference is pretty small and shouldn't matter.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Sep 28, 2011

No matter our ages, we are all novice nurses. I think that levels the playing field considerably.

BTW, I'm a 40-something career changer. Professionally, I feel that I have more in common with the younger, newer nurses who give me tips on organization, calling doctors, learning skills, plus they are not afraid of telling me their faux pas and how I can avoid them. It is very recent memory for them. On a personal level, I have more in common with the experienced nurses, and they give me tips on the big picture, arranging my sleep schedule for nights, etc. The experienced nurses understandably have forgotten some of the details of being a new grad, but they can remember the general feeling.

I learn from them all.

Good Morning, Gil · Sep 28, 2011

I just think we need to be careful with the (is ageism the right word? lol. That's usually for the elderly, but anyway, I digress lol). I know plenty of people my age who have a great work ethic, always show up no matter what, reliable, great team player, but I guess we tend to hang around people who are similar to us.

I think the whole poor work ethic and not actually wanting to work hard stems from the new generation where kids are handed everything, never worked a day in their life kind of thing. I'm so glad my parents did not do that (still took awesome care of me and helped me out, etc) and am thankful they instilled in me the importance of being reliable, etc, no matter what the job. You can bet my future kids will be taking a crappy summer job in high school. It's definitely a character builder. And, it's a shame that the "younger generation" gives a bad name for us youngies lol (and I guess I'm not really that young anymore! lol) now, but I think that people that actually are hard workers (no matter what the age) convey that, and interviewers can pick up on it.

What was the topic of the OP's post again? lol, oh yes, right. OP, I think it really is an individual thing; I am not a hiring manager, but if I were, I would just pick the most qualified individual, period. Odds are that they will not have the EXACT same experience, and if age really is the only factor, then I would pick the person I got the best vibe from in the interview, who seems like they would be the best fit for the unit/position, etc.

Good Morning, Gil · Sep 28, 2011

FLMomof5, well said!! The only thing I tend to disagree with would be idealism v. realism. Okay, so I am younger, mid-20's, but have worked long enough to see "how things are." However, I am an idealist and will always be. I don't see this as a disadvantage, however. Even though I can "stand" to see things how they are, I am constantly looking at how to improve things. Idealism is what makes change happen; effective leaders and innovators must be idealistic/creative. I'm not going on an MJ tirade "Heal the world" (anybody else immediately think of free willy w/that song? lol), but just to say that being idealistic is not a bad thing. Maybe you just mean it is harmful when people are so idealistic that they won't/can't function in the world as it is; "I won't do this until this happens" type of mentality. Yes, that would not be a good attitude to have in the workplace lol.