Young female patients

daydreamgapeach · Oct 9, 2008

All this about innocent until proven guilty stuff: We are talking about patients rights, and what makes the patient more comfortable. The patient is also a customer. The patiets have a right to refuse whatever care or whomever they don't want to treat them for what ever reason. It should never be a reason to be defensive or judge the patient. Yes, we do get aggravated at them for refusing, when they do so but it's still their choice. It is our duty to make them feel comfortable and have confidence in the iones that are taking care of them, otherwise, the hospital or clinic will be given bad publicity anyway, which is not good for business. And yes, it is a business too.

snednurse · Oct 9, 2008

The fact is, no matter what, the patient always has the right to deny care from someone they don't wish to care for them.

I am a white male nurse, and I have seen two particular circumstances in which this this pt. right has come in to play.

There was a black male patient who was consistently very rude to black female CNAs. He would go so far as to start cussing them out for not doing everything he wanted at that particular time, right away!! :argue: However, when I walked in the room, he was always very professional, and even allowed to provide care within the time frame that I had available for him. :no: Now, while this was wrong, we couldn't have gone to him and said, look, bub, you're an a-hole!! You need to accept care from cna X or else! We accommodated him, or if we could not have done so, we would have transferred him to another hospital!!

Another male pt. asked to only be treated by females, and was always trying flirt with them! :eek: Now, he never went too far, but because he made the request management honored it.

You have to be professional and make good judgments, but remember that the pt. always has the right to refuse for whatever reason! :nurse:

sharkdiver · Oct 10, 2008

I'm sorry, you need some better examples... The fact that Kobe is a celebrity had a HUGE impact on the fact that he "came off clean". However, in the nursing world, same as in anything dealing with minors (such as teaching, youth counselor, etc) once a complaint has been filed against you, even if you are proved innocent, it can ALWAYS haunt you and may forever tarnish your reputation...

Charges against Kobe were dropped after the victim told the prosecutors she no longer wanted to pursue it - shortly after which she received a large financial settlement from Bryant to drop her civil action as well. As the saying goes "follow the money". He only "came off clean" because he bought off the victim.

Writing laws and having doctorates do not make you right... I'm not really sure what you were getting at in this post, but this particular portion just rubbed me the wrong way... I believe what AmaurosisFugax was getting at was that in a perfect society race/sex/age wouldn't matter and yes, they are protected by law. Unfortunately, people are judged by these characteristics every day regardless of whether the law protects them. It sucks, but it happens...

LOL! Reminds me of an old saying...we all know what BS is, well MS is just more of the same, Piled Higher and Deeper.....sorry, I couldn't resist

And since I'm on a run with the cliche's, this is one of my favorites that somehow seems apropos "Never argue with an idiot - they'll only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

Nurse Salt · Oct 10, 2008

"Never argue with an idiot - they'll only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

I'll definitely have to keep this in mind! :)

Batman24 · Oct 10, 2008

This advice isn't just for men either. I'm female and have bought a chaperone/assistant into the room for both males and females. If a patient makes sexual comments, has dementia and a history of complaints against healthcare workers, minors, etc. it's wise and good practive to bring someone else into the room as a chaperone as needed. It's all about protecting yourself and your license.

In NS a bunch of us weren't allowed to care for a patient because she said her ex had blue eyes and she didn't trust people with light colored eyes anymore. We had no choice but to comply and none of us took it personally.

Proceeding when a patient refuses your care is a huge risk and can lead to criminal charges if you touch them without their permission. Just leave the room, advise your CN, and move on. Respect their wishes and go take care of someone else who will appreciate your experience and expertise.

Andrew, RN · Oct 10, 2008

I want to interject with this after reading the first 4 pages. This is a very emotionally charged issue and I have a likewise emotionally charged response to it.

If you care that your Registered Nurse is a male and don't want him caring for you or feel uncomfortable around him, and he has not done anything to warrant this feeling and has not performed care differently as compared to a female peer in the same situation would do -- you are an ass. Period. Just because I'm a guy doesn't mean I want to do you. I have standards too. I'm doing a job, I'm focused on the task at hand. I didn't get into nursing to sexually harass my patients.

I had this discussion with one of my classmates during OB clinical. She wouldn't want a male caring for her s/p delivery. I said, well do you have a male OB/GYN? Yes. How is that any different? She got very quiet after that.

We are professionals and should be treated as such. To expect anything less is a shame.

I would have put the EKG leads on her, just as I have 100s of times before with male/female/transgender/black/white/brown/english/german/spanish/hindu patients. It doesn't matter. We're all the same. We're all people. Explain to her exactly what you have to do before you do it. If she REQUESTS beforehand that she would feel more comfortable with a female doing this, I would honor that request. If I had to do something invasive that would expose her, I would have a female aid/another RN be in the room with me as a witness of conduct.

Leave your predjudices at the door before you come into the hospital.

cjcsoon2bnp, MSN, RN, NP · Oct 10, 2008

I know this issue has been talked to death but I thought I'd thrown in my two cents.

In an ideal world, any health care provider could walk into a patient's room and provide care to a patient without having to worry about a patient falsely accusing the provider of inappropriate conduct.

In an ideal world, stereotypes that only serve to perpetuate ignorance and damage the patient-provider relationship wouldn't exist.

Most of us know that male nurses are not perverts that cannot be left alone with female patients or that female nurses are not sex objects that will seduce their male patients if left alone with them and yet their are some people who believe those falsehoods. While we should be making every effort to eliminate such stereotypes by promoting positive images of nursing through professionalism we have to be realistic that some of our patients will be in the state of mind that they are delusional and are not realistically interpreting the events that are occurring in the world around them. It's because every complaint of misconduct must be investigated (to find when real occurrences of misconduct occur) that a false complaint can cause a lot of trouble for the accused. In situations like that it becomes a "he said - she said" issue and unless the provider has a witness to establish innocence then the provider could risk having disciplinary action taken against them and even have their license taking away from them. While in the perfect world you wouldn't require a chaperone to watch you while you're performing certain therapeutic measures for a patient we are not in the perfect world and having a chaperone is sometimes necessary. All I can say is that personally I have no desire to face any sort of punishment or lose my license due to a false accusation so if I need a chaperone sometimes to CMA then that's what I am going to do.

Ok so now I'm done, feel free to comment.

!Chris :specs:

Nurse Salt · Oct 10, 2008

I know this issue has been talked to death but I thought I'd thrown in my two cents.
In an ideal world, any health care provider could walk into a patient's room and provide care to a patient without having to worry about a patient falsely accusing the provider of inappropriate conduct.
In an ideal world, stereotypes that only serve to perpetuate ignorance and damage the patient-provider relationship wouldn't exist.
Most of us know that male nurses are not perverts that cannot be left alone with female patients or that female nurses are not sex objects that will seduce their male patients if left alone with them and yet their are some people who believe those falsehoods. While we should be making every effort to eliminate such stereotypes by promoting positive images of nursing through professionalism we have to be realistic that some of our patients will be in the state of mind that they are delusional and are not realistically interpreting the events that are occurring in the world around them. It's because every complaint of misconduct must be investigated (to find when real occurrences of misconduct occur) that a false complaint can cause a lot of trouble for the accused. In situations like that it becomes a "he said - she said" issue and unless the provider has a witness to establish innocence then the provider could risk having disciplinary action taken against them and even have their license taking away from them. While in the perfect world you wouldn't require a chaperone to watch you while you're performing certain therapeutic measures for a patient we are not in the perfect world and having a chaperone is sometimes necessary. All I can say is that personally I have no desire to face any sort of punishment or lose my license due to a false accusation so if I need a chaperone sometimes to CMA then that's what I am going to do.
Ok so now I'm done, feel free to comment.
!Chris

I completely agree with you... There was another thread earlier where we were going around and around with a young male nurse who wanted to begin a relationship with a patient. I (and several others) were trying to express to him the danger of losing his license and the ethical boundaries being crossed, but he wouldn't hear it. The scary thing, most posters were supporting his actions. I feel it is this thinking that lead many patients to believe in poor intentions and stereotypes regarding nurses, especially those who are young (male or female)...

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2008

Hye, I had a LOL accuse me of kissing her in a way that "women don't kiss other women like that."

I was sitting in her toom with her roommate who was extremely frightened and delusional, and at risk of eloping to follow her delusional voices. I hugged her, and said to the other confused LOL, "You need a kiss, too."

What she thought I was doing in there God only knows, but had they both not had records of dementia and psychosis, had I been male, and had they the short term memory to report me for nothin in the morning, goodness knows what would have happened.

abcwood · Oct 10, 2008

i agree that a female in the room would be appropriate. a male obgyn has a "chaparone" when performing pelvic exams and we all know that we go to an obgyn for that purpose. the chaparone is there as a comfort for the patient's sake and the md's sake. i agree as well that telling her what you needed to do would also have helped the situation so she was informed-a 15 year old can make relativly objective decisions in thier care and justly it is our duty to inform them as if we would inform a legal adult.

were the parent's not allowed in the procedure area? just curious.

october is breast cancer awareness month. have you hugged you female loved ones lately?:heartbeat

:up:

Iam12BaCRNA · Oct 10, 2008

As a male Nurse Extern (senior in nursing school) on a cardiology unit at a children's hospital I have often come across similar situations performing EKG's; especially since we see "children" up to 26+ years old. (If they have a congenital problem in childhood, they are followed through adulthood by the same doctors) In most cases, the best way to handle this type of situation is to ask a female staff member to accompany you - this protects you as well as makes the female patient feel secure. It is a slight inconvenience to bring a chaperone and have two people perform a job meant for one, but EKG's don't really take that long, and it will make everyone in the situation more comfortable (especially for teenaged and adolescent females).

S.N. Visit, BSN, RN · Oct 10, 2008

. I said, well do you have a male OB/GYN? Yes. How is that any different? .

I can tell you how it is different to have a male physician vs male nurse. A doctor is chosen by the pt. The nurse is assigned to the pt. Big difference. There is usually some sort of established relationship going on before intimate procedures are performed by the doctor. The pt seeks out a doctor she can trust and feels comfortable with. On the other hand, the nurse is a complete stranger that she did not ask for.

I might come off as an "Ass" in your eyes, but I prefer a female health care provider caring for me or my young daughter's intimate procedures, just as my husband seeks out male health care providers for his intimate exams. Nothing wrong with us, we are just modest people. Period!