Would You Treat Your Dog Like This?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

A Vietnam Vet, who has never used his VA benefits up until a few days ago,awoke to excruciating pain in his lower back. He called a friend, who transported him to a VA hospital in Alabama. When they arrived, the friend asked the facility's ER nurse to bring a stretcher out to the car, because the man couldn't stand or sit. The nurse told the friend that a wheelchair would do. He was rolled into the ER, screaming in pain, until he was given an injection of pain killers. He was then told by this facility that because of his injuries, they only prepped patients and prepared them for transport to a more comprehensive facility. So, the friend has to put this poor man back into his truck and transport him to the VA hospital in Atlanta. When he arrived, he again asked this facility's ER nurse for a stretcher...and was refused. After waiting for two hours, our VET was given another injection of painkillers...then had to wait another 2-1/2 hours, before he was finally seen by a doctor, who asked him what was wrong. The VET replied that he had back pain and couldn't walk. The doctor just asked: "What do you want us to do?"...and walked off, not even bothering to provide an examination. Of course the VET and his friend were stunned, and before they could react, they were told by a nurse that he had been discharged and would have to leave.

By the next morning, all the pain killers had worn off, and our VET is once again in agony. His friend contacted the office of our local congressman, who stated that he called the Atlanta VA facility and was told that if the VET was brought back, he would receive proper care. With the help of some friends, a stretcher was built out of some scaffolding support, and he was once again transported back to Atlanta. Lo and behold, when they arrived, they were able to get a stretcher, and our VET was wheeled inside the ER. He waited for FOUR hours, before he was finally given any pain medication. An X-Ray showed that he had a "problem" with his disc at L-5. He told his friend to go home, for he was confident that he would be admitted.

He was wrong. After his friend had left, a doctor gave him a prescription for NSAIDS and painkillers and left. It was now 2 AM, and a nurse showed up and told him: "Get your clothes, you've been discharged". He was able to get on his jeans and t-shirt, but was unable to bend over, to get his socks on. He asked if he could stay in the hospital's main waiting room until 8AM, when the Pharmacy opened and he could get his prescriptions filled and get a ride home. The nurse told him that he couldn't, and told him to get in a wheelchair. He did so, and was wheeled to the door of the E.R. and was told: "You have to leave the premises". He again asked the nurse if he could stay, but she called a security guard, who came and told him that if he didn't leave, the police would be called. Our VET told the guard to go ahead and call the cops, for he thought he would get "more help from them, than the VA". Instead, the guard rolled this man out to the bus stop and left him there. It was now 2:30 AM, and no bus was due until 7:30 AM. He used his cell phone to call his friend, who returned and picked him up. They went back to the ER, demanded answers...and got none.

While this travesty is supposedly being "investigated" by the VA and congressional officials, our VET is languishing on a sofa in his home...with a bedpan at his side, and he says (and WHO can blame him?): "...No way I am going back there. I wouldn't treat a dog the way they treated me....they send you to Vietnam to kill people and then they put you out on the street".

:angryfire

Specializes in Medical/Surgical.

I just don't understand how such heartless people can be employed in the medical profession. :( They should all be fired!

WOW...I am really sad to hear that stuff like this still goes on in the VA hospitals. I thought that era was over. My Father and my Step Father are both VETS and are being treated for various conditions at two seperate facilities in Florida. One is in Tampa and the other is in West Palm Beach. Neither of them have had ANY complaints at all and have been very impressed with the care that they get and the concern of the Doc for their care.

I hope the treatment that those other VETS are exceptions to the rule rather than the norm.:stone

Specializes in RETIRED Cath Lab/Cardiology/Radiology.

Kevin, what a horrible story!!! I am appalled!! NO ONE, Vet or not, should go through what that poor man went through. We had a similar pt come into the County hospital for an MRI. He was literally writhing in pain (he was scheduled for light sedation - HA!). My colleague called anesthesia stat to help with his pain control so he could have the MRI and he ended up being admitted.

I have worked at a few private hospitals, a County hospital and currently am working at a VA hospital. I've seen good care as well as neglect in all facilities. I would not slam ALL VA hospitals, because I know we in our department at the VA try to care for our pts as individuals, and give care as quickly as possible. We've had outpts come in for a treadmill that turned out to be so strongly positive we took them for cardiac cath and then admitted them ALL IN THE SAME DAY, or sent them for intervention THE SAME DAY. I've only been working at the VA a few months but am impressed with the level of expertise and caring by all staff menbers in my department. I also see the same concern for the Vets in other departments, as I'm getting to know the various staff members. I have talked with many of the Vets I have as patients (and some friends who are Vets and get their care - through various departments - at our VA) and they have mainly good reports of the care at our VA. Not to toot our own horn (if we don't, though, who will??), but all VA facilities are not the same, in the same way that all private hospitals are not the same, and all County hospitals are not the same.

I agree with you, Kevin,: our Vets deserve only the best of care (as do all pts). I hope a big investigation ensues, and that strong, positive changes come to that VA hospital.

I was working on a unit at a local VA hospital. An uncertified nursing assistant took gauze and other dressing supplies from the room of a patient in isolation for infected wounds to the room of a burn patient in reverse isolation. I asked not to come in but she called me a racial slur (we are the same race).

When I reported it I was told it is necessary to trust each other!

At the time there was a 1-800 hotline to report federal employees. I reported the appalling lack of isolation training (or worse) the state, the 800 number, and JCAHO. My letter to the editor was not published.

A couple years later that head nurse was arrested for theft of computers at that VA facility.

My WWII vet uncle is now getting excellent outpatient care. He says that since there are so few of them alive there is finally a program to provide the care they were denied for more than 1/2 a century.

Phillipino WWII vets who are US citizens are denied the kind of care my uncle enjoys. That's just wrong. Many are the fathers of nurses.

Specializes in Case Management, Home Health, UM.

When I was working in home health, I cringed whenever we got a referral from the VA, for it was always a big mess. Case in point: A vet was referred to us for home care, freshly diagnosed with terminal cancer. My nurse got out to his home to find pills and bottles scattered all over the floor, and this man screaming with suicidal ideations. I called the VA's case manager back and told her that her patient was threatening to die, and he was NOT appropriate for home health. Of course she had NO earthly idea as to what I was talking about, because she didn't "know anything about him." "Well",I responded, in my best professional tone, "You are going to have a DEAD man on your hands, if you don't get him back into your facility and a psych work-up done on him, because he is bonkers to the point where my nurse is afraid to leave him". When I said that, she stuttered and stammered and ordered him shipped back to the VA...where he should have STAYED....to BEGIN with!

Specializes in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg.

"Stories such as this are the norm, rather than the exception where VA facilities are concerned"

I don't doubt the accuracy of the initial post on this thread, but this quoted generalization is unfair and not accurate, in my experience. It all depends on where you are geographically (and I don't live in the South, thank you very much), whether you have signed up for benefits BEFORE you need them (as you would do with ANY HMO, for example), whether you have taken the time to establish a relationship with a primary care physician or NP, etc.

I used to work at a very good VA hospital--San Francisco, and it is one that I would recommend to anyone who is eligible.

I have had better care (including a lower back injury) at the 4 VA hospitals and clinics I have occasionally used than I ever got from Kaiser or anyone else.

I choose to use the VA for my own healthcare, and have done so for years, rather than employer-provided HMO and PPO choices.

From what I have seen, and this can be verified by my friends and family members who are also veterans, the VA system provides some of the best and most affordable healthcare for vets in this country--though, admittedly, since so much of US healthcare is abysmal, this may not always be saying a great deal.

So far as the original post is concerned, using political contacts is a very wise thing to do when one runs into this kind of problem. (Might I point out that patients don't have this option when using regular public and private hospitals and healthcare facilities.)

Specializes in Case Management, Home Health, UM.
Originally posted by sjoe

[b

So far as the original post is concerned, using political contacts is a very wise thing to do when one runs into this kind of problem. (Might I point out that patients don't have this option when using regular public and private hospitals and healthcare facilities.) [/b]

S.Joe-

The entire text of this news article will not be available online until 9/22/03, which will include all the political contacts this VA beneficiary and his friends made, following this incident. I will provide a link, as soon as it is available. :)

Specializes in Case Management, Home Health, UM.

Here is the text of this news article in its entirety:

Local veteran amazed at VA hospital treatment

Published 9/21/03

By ALEX McRAE

[email protected]

Thirty five years ago, when America needed Lee Watson, he answered the call -- going all the way to Vietnam to dodge bullets on his nation's behalf. This week, when Watson asked for some help in return, he was tossed -- literally -- out on the street.

At his Newnan home earlier this week, Watson -- on his sofa and unable to stand because of excruciating back pain -- says he's still coming to grips with the way he was treated by the Veteran's Administration Hospital in Decatur.

"Ever since I got out of service," he says, "I've told people that if anything happened, get me to the VA, they'll take care of me. Guess I was wrong."

Two weeks ago, Watson began to experience what he calls "mild backaches." By Sunday, Sept. 7, the pain was debilitating and Watson drove himself to Newnan's Summit Healthplex after-hours facility where he was given some pain medication and advised to schedule a doctor's appointment to have the problem checked.

Watson says the pills gave him some relief and by Wednesday, Sept. 10, he was able to get about in relative comfort. But on Sunday, Sept. 14, he awoke to pain so severe he was barely able to roll out of bed. He called a friend, Steve Hudson, and said he needed to go to the hospital.

Although Watson was discharged from the U.S. Army in 1970, he had never used any of his V.A. benefits and had never before visited a V.A. hospital. "I just never get sick," he says. "I hadn't been to any doctor anywhere."

Watson had heard from a friend that the V.A. Hospital in Tuskegee, Alabama, was less crowded and offered quicker service than the Atlanta facility. Hudson helped Watson drag himself out to Watson's truck. Watson lay down in the back seat of the extended cab vehicle and the two left for Tuskegee.

On arriving at the Tuskegee facility, Hudson went to the emergency room and advised a nurse of Watson's condition and that he needed a stretcher because Watson couldn't stand or sit.

Hudson says the nurse said a wheelchair would do and as Hudson protested, pulled Watson from the truck, sat him in a wheelchair and rolled him inside as Watson tried to hold his back and legs straight to avoid the sitting position. "Lee was just screaming, he hurt so bad," says Hudson, "but she just ignored him."

Watson was eventually given an injection of pain killers and then, some bad news. According to Hudson, a V.A. official told him that for injuries like Watson's, the Tuskegee facility only prepped patients and prepared them for transport to a more comprehensive facility.

Hudson managed to get Watson back in the truck and they headed for Atlanta.

At 6:30 p.m. they arrived at the V.A. Hospital on Clairmont Road in Decatur. Again, Hudson went inside and advised of Watson's condition and that he needed a stretcher. Again he was told a wheelchair would do and once again, Watson was pulled from the truck and placed in a wheelchair where he tried to lay straight to reduce the pain.

Watson was wheeled into the hospital entrance where, Hudson says, he sat for two hours without being seen by anyone. At 8:30 p.m. Watson says he was given an injection of painkiller and taken to the emergency room, where he waited until 11 p.m. before seeing a doctor.

Watson says the encounter was brief. "He asked me what was wrong," says Watson, "and I told him I had bad back pain and couldn't walk."

Watson says the doctor did not ask any more questions or examine him at all. "He never touched me," says Watson. "All he did was say 'what are we supposed to do' and walked off."

Watson and Hudson were stunned. But before they could react, Hudson says a nurse appeared and told them Watson had been discharged and needed to leave. They returned to Newnan.

By Monday morning the painkillers he'd received the night before had worn off and Watson was again in agony. And furious at the way he had been treated. He called a friend, Rocky Roquemore, to advise him of the situation. Roquemore called the offices of U.S. Representative Mac Collins and spoke to Fred Chitwood who said he would investigate. Roquemore says Chitwood called back later to say he had spoken with the hospital officials and was told Watson should be brought back and would receive proper care.

Watson called friends Gene Morris and Morris' grandfather, Lon, to catch another ride to Atlanta. Gene Morris borrowed a piece of scaffolding support from Southtowne Motors, where he works, and he and Lon, used it to improvise a stretcher with which to load Watson into the back of Gene Morris' SUV. Gene Morris returned to work and Lon Morris, a World War II veteran who has used the V.A. hospital frequently, drove Watson back to Decatur.

Lon Watson says his experience with the V.A. had been satisfactory over the years and he had no qualms about taking Watson to the facility. That opinion would soon change.

They arrived at 2:30 p.m. on Tuesday, Sept. 16. This time, at Lon Morris' request, a stretcher was provided and Watson was rolled inside the facility.

Two hours later Watson had not seen a doctor despite several inquires on his behalf by Morris. "I kept telling people what was wrong and how bad he was hurting," says Lon Morris, "but nobody came by."

Watson was eventually rolled to the emergency room, where, according to Morris, an IV was administered about 8:30 p.m. During the six hours he and Watson had been at the hospital Lon Morris continued without success to confirm whether or not Watson was going to be admitted for the night.

At 10 p.m. Watson was taken to X-Ray and finally saw a doctor, who advised he wanted a second doctor to review the x-ray films.

Knowing the process wouldn't be completed until well after midnight, Watson waved at Lon Morris and told him to leave, confident he would be there for the night. Watson was wrong.

Watson said the second doctor eventually arrived, reviewed the x-rays and advised Watson he had a problem with a disc in the 5th lumbar vertebrae. Watson was given a prescription for pain and anti-inflammatory drugs and told to come back Friday, Sept. 12, for a follow-up visit to determine a course of action.

The doctor left and Watson says less than five minute later a nurse appeared. "She told me 'get your clothes, you've been discharged,'" says Watson. It was now after 2 a.m.

Watson said he managed to get on his jeans and T-shirt but was unable to bend over to pull on his socks. He had been advised the hospital pharmacy opened at 8 a.m. and he planned to stay in the main waiting room until then, get his prescriptions filled and call someone to come get him.

The V.A., however, had other plans.

Watson said when he told the nurse of his intentions, he was advised he couldn't stay in the waiting room.

Watson says the nurse told him to get in a wheelchair, which he did without assistance. He says he was then rolled to the exit door of the emergency room and told "You've got to leave the premises." Watson says he again asked if he could stay in the building until the pharmacy opened and he could call for a ride back to Newnan, but the nurse called a security guard who came and told Watson if he didn't leave, the police would be called.

Watson said it was the best news he'd heard all night. "Go ahead and call 'em," I said. I thought maybe I'd get more help form the police than I'd gotten from the V.A."

Instead of calling the law, the security guard rolled Watson outside the building and across the expansive lawn of the hospital to a MARTA bus stop. Watson was told to get out of the wheelchair. He pulled himself up on the bus stop bench and lay down. It was 2:30 am. Watson says the guard told him a bus would be by at 7:30 a.m.

Watson used his cell phone to call Gene Morris and within minutes, Morris and his wife, Marie were headed to Atlanta to pick up their friend. They helped him into their SUV and drove back to the hospital's emergency entrance.

Marie Morris went inside looking for some answers. She found a female hospital employee and demanded to know the name of the security guard who had wheeled Watson to the bus stop and the name of the doctor who had ordered him discharged so early in the morning. Morris says she got no satisfactory answers and did not even get the name of the employee she was talking with. "She had turned her name tag over so it couldn't be read," Morris says.

Morris was willing to wait until she spoke to someone, but Watson was in severe pain and wanted to go home. The three left Decatur and arrived back in Newnan just before sunrise. Watson went to his couch where he has remained, bedpan by his side, ever since.

Marie Morris made several calls to the Veteran's Administration and state officials looking for answers. She reports she has mostly met with vague answers and unreturned messages. Morris says that on Friday, Sept. 19, she spoke with a woman at the V.A. Hospital Morris identified as Renea Lawrence, who, Morris says, informed her it was V.A. policy to make patients leave as soon as they were discharged.

Sharon Snellgrove, the hospital's Acting Public Affairs Officer, said Friday the hospital has no such policy and added that every effort is always made to serve the veterans with dignity and respect.

Snellgrove added that the hospital has a comprehensive discharge policy that covers a variety of options, including offering discharged patients the opportunity to call a cab or a friend or a family member to come pick them up. Snellgrove said a review of hospital records showed Watson had received medical care that met the V.A. 's "community standards," but if errors were made regarding his dismissal, they would be investigated.

"We always do a fill review of these matters and we're constantly monitoring the system to try and make it better," she said. "If there's a problem, we'll take care of it."

Hospital Associate Medical Center Director Freeman Walker echoed Snellgrove's sentiments, adding, "We do not discharge a vet without having a plan. Our staff is trained to provide compassionate service to all our veterans."

Walker added that while the V.A. does receive complaints from time to time, the vast majority of veterans are satisfied with their care. "When complaints arise," he said, "we look into each one and try to get all the information we can to take care of the situation. If discipline is called for, we do that," he added.

"Our mission, and my personal mission as a veteran myself," says Walker, "is to see that all veterans get the care and treatment they deserve and have earned. I'm dedicated to that goal."

Congressman Mac Collins whose office is investigating the matter said, "If what we've heard is true, this is just not to be tolerated. We're talking to people and gathering facts and we're going to find out what happened and get it resolved. Our veterans deserve nothing but the best. Anything less is not acceptable."

As for Lee Watson, all he wants is relief from his pain. As soon as he's able he plans to go see a doctor. But not at a V.A. hospital. "No way I'm going back there," he says, "I wouldn't treat a dog the way they treated me."

Watson just wants some help. He thinks he's earned it. "It's a hell of a price to pay, " he says. "They send you over to Vietnam to kill people and then they put you out on the street."

Specializes in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg.

"Would You Treat Your Dog Like This? "

I have that same thought every time I am in an ICU, CCU, nursing home, etc.

That's a good article. Hope this poor man gets some treatment soon. No way would I ever boot an incapacitated patient out on the street....even if he WAS discharged. We have a bigger duty here. We had a lot of indigents at a local facility I worked for and our policy was at least to get a cab voucher to take them home. They treated this man shabbily and really dropped the ball.

The standard treatment...lst step...for HNP IS NSAIDS and outpatient treatment. 80% of HNP's WILL heal on their own with rest, NSAID's, PT....but sounds like nobody bothered to explain this to this poor guy...and a few doses of IV Toradol or similar might have reduced the swelling enough that he could walk...shame they wouldn't keep him a day for that...or arrange a HHN to visit and treat even...:(

Wish someone would write more articles like this...including how badly nurses are treated by their employers when THEY get hurt. Same kinda deal...they just hope we all 'go away'. :(

Originally posted by sjoe

[bI used to work at a very good VA hospital--San Francisco, and it is one that I would recommend to anyone who is eligible.

I have had better care (including a lower back injury) at the 4 VA hospitals and clinics I have occasionally used than I ever got from Kaiser or anyone else.

I choose to use the VA for my own healthcare, and have done so for years, rather than employer-provided HMO and PPO choices.

From what I have seen, and this can be verified by my friends and family members who are also veterans, the VA system provides some of the best and most affordable healthcare for vets in this country--though, admittedly, since so much of US healthcare is abysmal, this may not always be saying a great deal.

So far as the original post is concerned, using political contacts is a very wise thing to do when one runs into this kind of problem. (Might I point out that patients don't have this option when using regular public and private hospitals and healthcare facilities.) [/b]

If the people truly understood that this is one area of healthcare the voters have a say in I think many would insist on a promise to treat our veterans with the dignity of providing what was promised them.

O write letters and send e- mails. Two VA facilities to my knowledge have been cited for infection control violations. One was after my report. The other I read in the paper had a large percentage of patients with MRSA and VRE infections.

I went to the canteen there and could not find one staff member willing to even take an anonymous action on behalf of the veterand in his or her care.

That is wht I quit. Teamwork is considered so important a kindly request for education was considered "snitching".

Scary how some of these facilites have treated patients. Hoever, I have nothing but praise for the VA system near us. We have a system of outpatient clinics with MDs, RNs, and NPs for primary care. When specialists are needed they refer to the VA hospitals in the SF Bay area Palo ALto and Livermore. My husband is Vietnam era vet and uses the system extensively- our jobs do not provide health insurance, we make too much for gov't programs, and we cant afford to carry private policies on both of us. We pay private insurance for me. I like the continiuty of care: the records/orders are all in the computer so the NP can look up what the endocrinologist is doing, the latest labs, what he has been prescribed, etc. They even paid for some stuff private insurance won't: the male infertility workup, for example. For the vets who are older and can't drive thhey offer a shuttle service for 10.00 round trip. Thats a bargain when you consider gas the the cost of parking in the bay area. I told my dh when we eventually go to universal health care like the rest of the develped world I wouldnt mind it at all if it was managed like the VA.

Laura

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