Would You do the same thing I did?

[vnsam]

would you do the same thing i did? was it really a crime and ground for termination? or i am missing something?

i am a lvn here in san diego working in a small hospital which am employed for more than five years now.

i've been lvn for more than a decade now and was never in trouble but only now. this really hurts me.

i work 12 hrs a day and mainly taking graveyard shift. i just got terminated today for job abandonment when i left work early due to family emergency which i think was the right thing for me to do as a father.

my wife on the other hand (also working that night) called me on my cellphone at 0400, telling me that our son called her and telling her that his sister has a temperature of 104.2f:nono: orally with severe headache and with occational nausea and vomitting. my wife also told me that she took the liberty of calling our supervisor that night at 0330 and was told that i can not leave until 0600 and was surprised to know that for 30 min past, the supervisor did'nt even bother telling me about it. my wife don't know how to drive and gets to work only by carpooling with co workers and she has no means of getting home without a car. my kids 3 kids (17, 15 and 14 years old) are hopeless at this time and so, i told my charge nurse in icu about this and hearing without reply i took that as a "no problem" with them. i did my 0400 duties and when i was done at 0445 (with no word yet from the supervisor) i went straight to her office and told her that i am done helping my charge nurses and i have to leave.

to my surprise instead of relieving my post she replied "well sam, you can not leave until six o'clock and i am busy with staffing". :trout: i was begging and told her that i really have to go since my wife is at work and don't drive but to no avail. by then, it was already 0449 when i clocked out and that was all. i left my work in a hurry knowing they would understand. but i guess i was wrong.. maybe, if it was someone else with the same problem; they could be sent home right away without problem.. it just so happened that it was me...

[TazziRN, RN]

I don't have children, BUT yes I would have done the same thing if you needed an adult there and sounds to me as if you did. BUT, on reflection I think I would have called 911.

Unfortunate, about them having to report you, though. Fortunately, I think any new employer might understand. If you said something like I learned a lesson and if given that choice again, I would rely on so and so or call 911.

How is your daughter doing? Good luck!

Ummm.........a fever is not a legitimate reason to call 911. A call to 911 for a teenager with a fever will result in a very ticked off paramedic and a disgusted ER nurse.

[DeLana_RN, BSN, RN]

In most states in the US, you can by fired for any reason, or for no reason at all.

And ironically, they call these "right to work" states! (What it really means is non-union states; therefore, workers have few rights or protections.) Sad, but true.

DeLana

[smk1, LPN]

I probably would have called 911. Maybe it would piss off the medics and ER staff, but if my kid has a temp of 104.2 with N/V and a severe headache and I can't get to him, 911 seems appropriate. He needs to be evaluated ASAP. If they decided he dosen't need to go by ambulance then they don't have to take him. In any case get a professional over there to decide. Maybe he would be fine going in a cab to the ER, but then again maybe not. I would have called and talked to him myself first though. In any case hope your child is doing fine. Maybe going in to talk to the supervisor could help smooth things over. Have a plan in place for how and why this will not happen again. Maybe it will help.

[oneLoneNurse]

Yes, I think calling 911, for a temp over 104 is prudent. Maybe its not as important in a child, BUT if you can't leave work, what are you supposed to do? I would want to ensure the child is OK. If the EMT has a child he/she might understand.

Not an expert, BUT I think people in trouble of a certain generation or bent don't call 911 when they should and then there are others who call 911 too much. In this case, you either needed an adult with assessment skills there, or you did not. If it were my child I would have erred on the conservative side.

[ERRNTraveler, RN]

Ummm.........a fever is not a legitimate reason to call 911. A call to 911 for a teenager with a fever will result in a very ticked off paramedic and a disgusted ER nurse.

Tazzi, I think you & I are the only ones who feel this way. *sigh*

[CyndieRN2007]

I'm very sorry. I have a young son, and I work nights too. Its very hard when they are sick. Again, Im so sorry. I can relate.

[CyndieRN2007]

Ummm.........a fever is not a legitimate reason to call 911. A call to 911 for a teenager with a fever will result in a very ticked off paramedic and a disgusted ER nurse.

Depends. Fever of 104 might be depending on accompanying s/sx.

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

no, i wouldn't have done the same thing you did. i think you overreacted. nursing treatment of a fever is taught in fundamentals of nursing. it is only an emergency if the person is having difficulty breathing, swallowing, has a stiff neck, severe headache, is confused, drowsy or has gone on to have seizures. the home treatment is lukewarm bathing, giving an antipyretic such as tylenol and checking the temperature every 30 minutes to see if the fever is coming down. this is what you should have told your wife to do until you were able to get home. then, you should have waited until the supervisor gave you permission to leave. you got emotional and dramatic instead of being rational. that was a mistake. you weren't acting like a prudent nurse at all.

i worked on an online nursing advice service for a major medical insurance company and we got calls for this kind of situation all the time. we constantly told, and gave those same specific instructions to people all the time. we also instructed them to go to an urgent care facility or their doctor's office. a fever of 104 is not a 911 or er emergency. fyi. . .many insurance companies won't cover an er claim for a fever of 104 unless the patient is admitted as an inpatient.

were you reported to the state board? i'd be more worried about losing your license over this.

by the way, how did this all turn out for your daughter. is she ok now? what was the reason for her fever? did they ever find out? as you look back on this, would you have done the same thing?

[CyndieRN2007]

no, i wouldn't have done the same thing you did. i think you overreacted. nursing treatment of a fever is taught in fundamentals of nursing. it is only an emergency if the person is having difficulty breathing, swallowing, has a stiff neck, severe headache, is confused, drowsy or has gone on to have seizures. the home treatment is lukewarm bathing, giving an antipyretic such as tylenol and checking the temperature every 30 minutes to see if the fever is coming down. this is what you should have told your wife to do until you were able to get home. then, you should have waited until the supervisor gave you permission to leave. you got emotional and dramatic instead of being rational. that was a mistake. you weren't acting like a prudent nurse at all.

i worked on an online nursing advice service for a major medical insurance company and we got calls for this kind of situation all the time. we constantly told, and gave those same specific instructions to people all the time. we also instructed them to go to an urgent care facility or their doctor's office. a fever of 104 is not a 911 or er emergency. fyi. . .many insurance companies won't cover an er claim for a fever of 104 unless the patient is admitted as an inpatient.

were you reported to the state board? i'd be more worried about losing your license over this.

by the way, how did this all turn out for your daughter. is she ok now? what was the reason for her fever? did they ever find out? as you look back on this, would you have done the same thing?

sometimes, people act emotional and dramatic when it comes to the safety and health of their children. as a mother, i can absolutely relate.

one question, do lvn's in icu take their own patients?

how is your daughter doing?

[patwil73]

no, i wouldn't have done the same thing you did. i think you overreacted. nursing treatment of a fever is taught in fundamentals of nursing. it is only an emergency if the person is having difficulty breathing, swallowing, has a stiff neck, severe headache, is confused, drowsy or has gone on to have seizures. the home treatment is lukewarm bathing, giving an antipyretic such as tylenol and checking the temperature every 30 minutes to see if the fever is coming down. this is what you should have told your wife to do until you were able to get home. then, you should have waited until the supervisor gave you permission to leave. you got emotional and dramatic instead of being rational. that was a mistake. you weren't acting like a prudent nurse at all.

my wife on the other hand (also working that night) called me on my cellphone at 0400, telling me that our son called her and telling her that his sister has a temperature of 104.2f:nono: orally with severe headache and with occational nausea and vomitting.

i keep seeing posts that say you shouldn't be too worried about a high fever that appear to be ignoring the other symptoms - namely severe headache. the child was worried enough to call the parents at work in the middle of the night so he (the child) felt like he couldn't handle the problem. the other child was either 15 or 14 years old so i don't think asking for a rectal temperature from a brother to a sister is appropriate. no adult is available at home (not uncommon with teenagers in working households).

we of course don't know any history with the child or the original poster's working relationship (other than he says he hasn't been in trouble), but the symptoms are troubling. we don't know if they tried tylenol prior to calling their parents, or if they did anything else.

imagine you had a patient that suddenly (in the middle of the night) presented with a temp of 104.2 orally, severe headache, and nausea and vomiting. would you call the doctor? would you be concerned and upset if the doctor ignored you and gave you no orders?

as the supervisor at my hospital one of the things i get to do is lead our medical response team that responds to concerns from the staff regarding patients. after each incident i review the chart and try and meet with the rn to go over what i discovered. often times there are warning symptoms that have made them uneasy, but they didn't call until too late. i am constantly reinforcing "if you are concerned, please call". i would rather be called a few times for nothing, than always be called when i have no choice but to code or transfer to icu (i'm not saying this rises to that level - but the poster was concerned, and should act on that).

hope this helps,

pat

[CHATSDALE]

can a minor present in er with a minor sibling without adult??

a fever of 104+ that continues several hours with n/v and extreme headache can be the s/s of a very serious condition

you should have been notified by your supervisor when your wife tried to get in touch with you, the fact that you were not was because they didn't want you to leave early..they had the option to call someone to come in early or the 'staffing' problem could have been postponed and she could have pitched in - if you had caught op on your work there would probably be less to do at that time

if this comes up before the board as abandonment stand up and fight it

1] you were kept uninformed of a situation that could have been very dangerous to your family

2] you gave report to your immediate superior and notified themthat you were leaving, you didn't just walk out

3] your children were following proper instructions in looking out for each other while you were at work, they were old to be left alone but they are still too young to take complete charge in an emergency

my best wishes for how this turns out

[CyndieRN2007]

I keep seeing posts that say you shouldn't be too worried about a high fever that appear to be ignoring the other symptoms - namely severe headache. The child was worried enough to call the parents at work in the middle of the night so he (the child) felt like he couldn't handle the problem. The other child was either 15 or 14 years old so I don't think asking for a rectal temperature from a brother to a sister is appropriate. No adult is available at home (not uncommon with teenagers in working households).

We of course don't know any history with the child or the original poster's working relationship (other than he says he hasn't been in trouble), but the symptoms are troubling. We don't know if they tried tylenol prior to calling their parents, or if they did anything else.

Imagine you had a patient that suddenly (in the middle of the night) presented with a temp of 104.2 orally, severe headache, and nausea and vomiting. Would you call the doctor? Would you be concerned and upset if the doctor ignored you and gave you no orders?

As the supervisor at my hospital one of the things I get to do is lead our Medical Response Team that responds to concerns from the staff regarding patients. After each incident I review the chart and try and meet with the RN to go over what I discovered. Often times there are warning symptoms that have made them uneasy, but they didn't call until too late. I am constantly reinforcing "If you are concerned, please call". I would rather be called a few times for nothing, than always be called when i have no choice but to code or transfer to ICU (I'm not saying this rises to that level - but the poster was concerned, and should act on that).

Hope this helps,

Pat

can a minor present in er with a minor sibling without adult??

a fever of 104+ that continues several hours with n/v and extreme headache can be the s/s of a very serious condition

you should have been notified by your supervisor when your wife tried to get in touch with you, the fact that you were not was because they didn't want you to leave early..they had the option to call someone to come in early or the 'staffing' problem could have been postponed and she could have pitched in - if you had caught op on your work there would probably be less to do at that time

if this comes up before the board as abandonment stand up and fight it

1] you were kept uninformed of a situation that could have been very dangerous to your family

2] you gave report to your immediate superior and notified themthat you were leaving, you didn't just walk out

3] your children were following proper instructions in looking out for each other while you were at work, they were old to be left alone but they are still too young to take complete charge in an emergency

my best wishes for how this turns out

Great posts, I could have never said it better myself.