what to do if you're worried about a negative reference

[ceccia]

i've read a few topics here lately re: people job hunting and worried about their former manager/supervisor/HR giving a negative reference to potential employers.

Obviously it's not always your fault if you get fired or had problems with your former boss. if you suspect that your former boss might try to sabotage your efforts to find a job:

1. before you send out resumes, have someone you know call your former employers pretending to be a prospective employer checking references.

make sure the person you choose to do this can do it convincingly and sound professional and legit. if you don't have a friend or family member that can handle the task, hire a professional. there are companies who specialize in such things, and imho it's well worth it.

2. if your source reports that a former employer has given you a negative reference or has said anything that is not factual and objective, have an attorney send that person a formal letter advising them on the legal consequences of libel /slander. remind them that they are risking a potential lawsuit if s/he is not careful.

it will cost money, but it will be worth it to know when a real potential employer calls them, your shady former boss will only be giving neutral facts in his/her reference.

my friend and former roommate in school was in this situation; she left a job where she was considered a troublemaker because she spoke up about things like working short staffed, being forced to stay and finish documentation off the clock, etc. and didn't answer her phone on her days off.

i called her boss pretending to be checking her references, and he did give her a negative reference, including 'bad attitude' and 'doesn't go above and beyond'.

my aunt knows an attorney, who actually typed up a letter for free.

two weeks after he sent the letter, another of our friends (who is a professional actor !) called her former boss for a reference, and all he told him was dates of employment and that she was eligible for re-hire.

[ceccia]

another bit of advice, avoid your problem supervisor entirely if you can. personal experience here: i worked a job for a year where i got along with everyone and the DON was awesome. literally two weeks before my last day there, the DON left for a better job. the new DON was a complete shrew who had something against travelers and thought they were all lazy and mercenary. i caught her badmouthing me to my main charge nurse one day and realized no way could i take a chance on her being the one to give me a reference!

i contacted the former DON, who gladly agreed to give me a reference and gave me permission to give out her personal phone # and email address. I then asked the charge nurse that i worked with almost every day, and she gave me her cell phone # to use as well. when prospective employers asked for references, I gave them these people's personal numbers, so there was no need for them to even call the facility at all - and no chance of them talking to the shrew from hades. :-)

if it's just one supervisor that is potentially going to give you a negative refrence, use other people instead, and use their personal contact info if they don't mind. chances are, if your DON /mgr is really that bad, other co-workers know it and will be sympathetic to helping you.

[applesxoranges, BSN, RN]

My next job I may do something like that if the boss remains in the ICU. I have great references and people who worked with me, but I quit the ICU and the childish way the manager acted suggests she may bad mouth me.

For other people though, it's important to remember that not all states are the same and it has to be untrue statements.

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Why would your friend use her former boss as a reference, KNOWING that s/he would probably be saying these things? And, no WAY would I be calling someone's former place of employment, pretending to be someone I was not. And none of my friends would ever ask. It's dishonest and in my opinion unethical to impersonate someone else. ESPECIALLY if they say they are Mr. X from XYZ hospital, citing a legit facility. I'm sorry, but I truly think that your advice is terrible...

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Are you familiar with what a reference is, when talking about employment opportunities? You keep talking about using people who can provide positive things to say about you. Of COURSE you'll choose these people. References are people you CHOOSE, not necessarily your former DON, direct supervisor, etc. You would never CHOOSE to use this "shrew from Hades" to be a reference for you, but when a potential employer calls your former employer for verification of work history, as they are not being used as a reference, their information provided should be limited to your start and end dates and if you're eligible for rehire at a later date.

You are using the term reference incorrectly in your advice postings.[

QUOTE=ceccia;8063678]another bit of advice, avoid your problem supervisor entirely if you can. personal experience here: i worked a job for a year where i got along with everyone and the DON was awesome. literally two weeks before my last day there, the DON left for a better job. the new DON was a complete shrew who had something against travelers and thought they were all lazy and mercenary. i caught her badmouthing me to my main charge nurse one day and realized no way could i take a chance on her being the one to give me a reference!

i contacted the former DON, who gladly agreed to give me a reference and gave me permission to give out her personal phone # and email address. I then asked the charge nurse that i worked with almost every day, and she gave me her cell phone # to use as well. when prospective employers asked for references, I gave them these people's personal numbers, so there was no need for them to even call the facility at all - and no chance of them talking to the shrew from hades. :-)

if it's just one supervisor that is potentially going to give you a negative refrence, use other people instead, and use their personal contact info if they don't mind. chances are, if your DON /mgr is really that bad, other co-workers know it and will be sympathetic to helping you.

[ceccia]

I'm sorry

meaningless linguistic filler.

but I truly think that your advice is terrible...

you're entitled to your opinion. (also i didn't "cite a legit facility" when i called. didn't need to.)

[ceccia]

Are you familiar with what a reference is, when talking about employment opportunities?

are you familiar with the fact that just because you're using someone as an employment reference (i.e. merely for the purpose of confirming dates of employment), that doesn't actually stop them from giving a biased and/or potentially defamatory character reference as well?

Managers/supervisors can say anything they want on the phone about you, and the only way to know is to check up on them. Keep them honest. There are too many people in supervisory /power positions who are horrendously ill-equipped to actually deal with people and should never have been given such positions in the first place. If you've had the unfortunate experience of working for such an individual, you can be proactive and not have to worry about them ruining your chances of moving on to a better job.

you're perfect AND you have never had a terrible boss? and/or you have your own methods of dealing with such a situation that work for you? great! then why even bother to read this topic, much less comment on it. (have you ever lectured a stranger on the internet and actually had him or her respond "oh wow, you're right! i never thought of it that way but everything you said makes perfect sense; how wrong was I?" no. i have my opinions, you have yours, no one's changing their minds here, let's move on.)

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

You still don't get it. When you list former employers, those aren't REFERENCES in the true interpretation of the definition. A REFERENCE is someone YOU choose to supply as being able to give positive comments/statements/recommendations about you. What a former employer/supervisor says about you is certainly out of your hands, but anyone who had a bad experience with a shrew of a DON and then uses them as a REFERENCE is a fool of epic proportions. Feel free to reply, but I will be unable to see your responses!

are you familiar with the fact that just because you're using someone as an employment reference (i.e. merely for the purpose of confirming dates of employment), that doesn't actually stop them from giving a biased and/or potentially defamatory character reference as well?

Managers/supervisors can say anything they want on the phone about you, and the only way to know is to check up on them. Keep them honest. There are too many people in supervisory /power positions who are horrendously ill-equipped to actually deal with people and should never have been given such positions in the first place. If you've had the unfortunate experience of working for such an individual, you can be proactive and not have to worry about them ruining your chances of moving on to a better job.

you're perfect AND you have never had a terrible boss? and/or you have your own methods of dealing with such a situation that work for you? great! then why even bother to read this topic, much less comment on it. (have you ever lectured a stranger on the internet and actually had him or her respond "oh wow, you're right! i never thought of it that way but everything you said makes perfect sense; how wrong was I?" no. i have my opinions, you have yours, no one's changing their minds here, let's move on.)

[applesxoranges, BSN, RN]

I thought I had replied but apparently my tablet didn't submit it.

I have seen many job applications ask for managers in order to get a reference. They specifically ask "can we contact your former employers for a reference?" most of the time. Sometimes it says to "verify."

Is there something personal between you two? It seems kind of heated for no reason. Did you two have an argument in another thread that has spilled over into this thread?

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I thought I had replied but apparently my tablet didn't submit it.

I have seen many job applications ask for managers in order to get a reference. They specifically ask "can we contact your former employers for a reference?" most of the time. Sometimes it says to "verify."

Is there something personal between you two? It seems kind of heated for no reason. Did you two have an argument in another thread that has spilled over into this thread?

Maybe it's something in the forum water that is making posters a bit cagey these days...

[MrChicagoRN, RN]

Potential employers know that there are sometime bad managers, and sometimes bad employees who feel its the managers fault that they are bad employees.

Im of the belief that your current shouldn't have even the slightest inkling that you are leaving. Calling for references before you've even sent out resumes, may make you persona non grata around there. Also, if a facility gets a letter threatening legal action,that may bite you. "I'm sorry, but on the advice of counsel, I can only confirm job title & dates of employmen.". What assumption do you think the new place is going to draw? And the response is consice and factual.

Ive never had an employer contact my immediate supervisor, and will specify that I don't want them contacting my current employer without my knowledge. In that case, I will give my an employer a heads up if that will happen. That, and providing a list of knock-em-dead professional references.

[RunBabyRN]

I do have one old position that I list because it's a phlebotomist position, and my most recent medical experience prior to nursing school. However, this hospital has HORRIBLE HR, my manager was terrible, and they decided not to bring me back from my maternity leave by simply avoiding my calls to check in with my manager. When I finally contacted HR, I never heard back from THEM. This hospital has been a lawsuit waiting to happen for years, and they finally closed in April because they were so horribly run. There's this big push from some people in the community to re-open. Anyway, I do list the hospital's main phone number as a reference, and now that there's no medical staff, I know that this manager is no longer there (plus, I have friends that still worked there when the hospital closed). I would assume at this point that all that's being given is what's SUPPOSED to be given, but I couldn't say that before. That said, I never got turned down for a job after reference checks. Who knows. It's an interesting idea to have someone call for a reference check (it's not that hard).