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Worried About I.v.'s

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Originally posted by Jay-Jay

This is scary!! In Ontario, RPN's (registered practical nurses) are allowed to give hydration therapy. When I was last in for surgery, the RPN was running the IV at 125 an hour. She did have orders to decrease it to KVO when/if I was drinking and peeing well. I had to BEG her to decrease it as I was going into fluid overload (borderline hypertensive, AND losing control of my overloaded bladder!) I think an RN would have had the judgement skills to have reduced it WITHOUT being asked.

RPN's/LVN's giving IV meds, esp. IV push meds?? Scares the daylights out of me!! :o

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Jay-Jay

This is scary!! In Ontario, RPN's (registered practical nurses) are allowed to give hydration therapy. When I was last in for surgery, the RPN was running the IV at 125 an hour. She did have orders to decrease it to KVO when/if I was drinking and peeing well. I had to BEG her to decrease it as I was going into fluid overload (borderline hypertensive, AND losing control of my overloaded bladder!) I think an RN would have had the judgement skills to have reduced it WITHOUT being asked.

RPN's/LVN's giving IV meds, esp. IV push meds?? Scares the daylights out of me!! :o

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Jay-Jay

This is scary!! In Ontario, RPN's (registered practical nurses) are allowed to give hydration therapy. When I was last in for surgery, the RPN was running the IV at 125 an hour. She did have orders to decrease it to KVO when/if I was drinking and peeing well. I had to BEG her to decrease it as I was going into fluid overload (borderline hypertensive, AND losing control of my overloaded bladder!) I think an RN would have had the judgement skills to have reduced it WITHOUT being asked.

RPN's/LVN's giving IV meds, esp. IV push meds?? Scares the daylights out of me!! :o

Sorry, but being a nurse, a lpn, if I even thought I was hypertensive an in fluid overload and the nurse would not kvo me, I would do it myself.

Originally posted by Jay-Jay

This is scary!! In Ontario, RPN's (registered practical nurses) are allowed to give hydration therapy. When I was last in for surgery, the RPN was running the IV at 125 an hour. She did have orders to decrease it to KVO when/if I was drinking and peeing well. I had to BEG her to decrease it as I was going into fluid overload (borderline hypertensive, AND losing control of my overloaded bladder!) I think an RN would have had the judgement skills to have reduced it WITHOUT being asked.

RPN's/LVN's giving IV meds, esp. IV push meds?? Scares the daylights out of me!! :o

Sorry, but being a nurse, a lpn, if I even thought I was hypertensive an in fluid overload and the nurse would not kvo me, I would do it myself.

back to the argument that there is much much more to i.v. therapy than there is to being i.v. certified. i.v. certification means that one observes proper technique when starting an i.v. line. running i.v. meds is another story. as far as teaching someone the skill of running i.v. meds, ok, start with pharmo, then take micro, a and p, then and only then do i truly believe that one can have the big picture.....also, study the effects of drugs on the renal system, and the liver....oh my, does this sound like the r.n. curriculum,,,,,bingo.....like i said, it's a lot more than just programming the pump. as far as pt. doing their own i.v. therapy, no guess work there...doctor orders the meds..they hang them. in our area an rn comes by once a day to check the site.

back to the argument that there is much much more to i.v. therapy than there is to being i.v. certified. i.v. certification means that one observes proper technique when starting an i.v. line. running i.v. meds is another story. as far as teaching someone the skill of running i.v. meds, ok, start with pharmo, then take micro, a and p, then and only then do i truly believe that one can have the big picture.....also, study the effects of drugs on the renal system, and the liver....oh my, does this sound like the r.n. curriculum,,,,,bingo.....like i said, it's a lot more than just programming the pump. as far as pt. doing their own i.v. therapy, no guess work there...doctor orders the meds..they hang them. in our area an rn comes by once a day to check the site.

Originally posted by cokie

back to the argument that there is much much more to i.v. therapy than there is to being i.v. certified. i.v. certification means that one observes proper technique when starting an i.v. line. running i.v. meds is another story. as far as teaching someone the skill of running i.v. meds, ok, start with pharmo, then take micro, a and p, then and only then do i truly believe that one can have the big picture.....also, study the effects of drugs on the renal system, and the liver....oh my, does this sound like the r.n. curriculum,,,,,bingo.....like i said, it's a lot more than just programming the pump. as far as pt. doing their own i.v. therapy, no guess work there...doctor orders the meds..they hang them. in our area an rn comes by once a day to check the site.

The LPN program I went to we had to take micro and AetP, study the effects of drugs on the renal system and liver. The IV therapy course I had to take was very intense. We had to take the micro and AetP before entering the program.( IV therapy was taken during the program). We had to study why electrolytes are given and which ones are given for what. What labs constitute renal failure and why someone might have elevated liver enzymes. Also what meds should or should not be given to these patients IV or any other way. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda

Then I move to the state I am in now. They wanted me to take their IV therapy class. (They take IV therapy AFTER they get out of the nursing program) So, I took it. To me it was like taking a kindergarden class. (I swear Im not trying to offend anyone).

Just the basics. Look at the order, hang whatever it is and get familiar with the pump. I could not understand this. They did go over transfusion reactions, I will give them credit for that.

Im sure these nurses that took this as their only IV course will learn something new everyday about IV therapy and everything else. I do. As nurses our educaton is an everyday ongoing thing.

Im sure there are just as many RNs as there are LPNs that learn something new about this subject (and others) every time they go to work.

Well, time to stop beating that dead horse (You know the one)

:)

Originally posted by cokie

back to the argument that there is much much more to i.v. therapy than there is to being i.v. certified. i.v. certification means that one observes proper technique when starting an i.v. line. running i.v. meds is another story. as far as teaching someone the skill of running i.v. meds, ok, start with pharmo, then take micro, a and p, then and only then do i truly believe that one can have the big picture.....also, study the effects of drugs on the renal system, and the liver....oh my, does this sound like the r.n. curriculum,,,,,bingo.....like i said, it's a lot more than just programming the pump. as far as pt. doing their own i.v. therapy, no guess work there...doctor orders the meds..they hang them. in our area an rn comes by once a day to check the site.

The LPN program I went to we had to take micro and AetP, study the effects of drugs on the renal system and liver. The IV therapy course I had to take was very intense. We had to take the micro and AetP before entering the program.( IV therapy was taken during the program). We had to study why electrolytes are given and which ones are given for what. What labs constitute renal failure and why someone might have elevated liver enzymes. Also what meds should or should not be given to these patients IV or any other way. Yadda, Yadda, Yadda

Then I move to the state I am in now. They wanted me to take their IV therapy class. (They take IV therapy AFTER they get out of the nursing program) So, I took it. To me it was like taking a kindergarden class. (I swear Im not trying to offend anyone).

Just the basics. Look at the order, hang whatever it is and get familiar with the pump. I could not understand this. They did go over transfusion reactions, I will give them credit for that.

Im sure these nurses that took this as their only IV course will learn something new everyday about IV therapy and everything else. I do. As nurses our educaton is an everyday ongoing thing.

Im sure there are just as many RNs as there are LPNs that learn something new about this subject (and others) every time they go to work.

Well, time to stop beating that dead horse (You know the one)

:)

Hi there,

I'm new here and I don't want to step on anyones toes, but I have been on both sides of this debate. I was an LPN for seven years and have been an RN for two years. All I can say is what some have already said. There are many LPN/LVN's with far more knowledge than I will ever hope to posess. Though I am there now to "supervise" them, they are often the ones helping me out of a bind. To tell you the truth, when I was an LPN, I used to see a lot of RN's and think "If so and so can be an RN, then I certainly can too." Unfortunately, licensure exams do not measure common sense. In my opinion, some RN's find it hard to give up control. In our hospital, LPN's can hang IVPB's, but cannot push meds and cannot hang blood/chemo etc. There is alot of talk about having them push meds. I say "Halleluiah". Less for me to do, and less for me to worry about.

Does anybody really think LPN's can work in nursing and not have any assessment skills? It's crazy.

Hi there,

I'm new here and I don't want to step on anyones toes, but I have been on both sides of this debate. I was an LPN for seven years and have been an RN for two years. All I can say is what some have already said. There are many LPN/LVN's with far more knowledge than I will ever hope to posess. Though I am there now to "supervise" them, they are often the ones helping me out of a bind. To tell you the truth, when I was an LPN, I used to see a lot of RN's and think "If so and so can be an RN, then I certainly can too." Unfortunately, licensure exams do not measure common sense. In my opinion, some RN's find it hard to give up control. In our hospital, LPN's can hang IVPB's, but cannot push meds and cannot hang blood/chemo etc. There is alot of talk about having them push meds. I say "Halleluiah". Less for me to do, and less for me to worry about.

Does anybody really think LPN's can work in nursing and not have any assessment skills? It's crazy.

I am in LPN school right now, I will graduate in December of this year. I have to take IV therapy and all the things you listed that you are worried about we (in Louisiana) have to learn. I can understand your concern. I am pretty sure LPN's that are not IV certified will need to be before they can hang meds. This should also take some work off of RN's that are constantly having to hang meds for the LPN's on the floor.

I am in LPN school right now, I will graduate in December of this year. I have to take IV therapy and all the things you listed that you are worried about we (in Louisiana) have to learn. I can understand your concern. I am pretty sure LPN's that are not IV certified will need to be before they can hang meds. This should also take some work off of RN's that are constantly having to hang meds for the LPN's on the floor.

look out!!!! ca will become just like texas, oklahoma, fla, and other states that over-extend the role of practical/vocational nurses then want to hire one rn to " sign-off" and/or be "supervising" them. i've been fortunate while here in south texas to work with lvn's willing to do anything to prove themselves, but i've also tried to enlighten them that they are not being paid for the responsibilitie some advanced skills carry with them. i'm from new york which i here is similar to california in delegation issues so i understand your concern. good luck

look out!!!! ca will become just like texas, oklahoma, fla, and other states that over-extend the role of practical/vocational nurses then want to hire one rn to " sign-off" and/or be "supervising" them. i've been fortunate while here in south texas to work with lvn's willing to do anything to prove themselves, but i've also tried to enlighten them that they are not being paid for the responsibilitie some advanced skills carry with them. i'm from new york which i here is similar to california in delegation issues so i understand your concern. good luck

As an LPN in my state, we hang IVPB's, hang blood and give IV push meds such as Lasix and Lopressor to name 2. One thing I feel about ANY procedure no matter the licensure; If you don't know how to do the task, then find someone that does. If there is ever anything I am unsure about or uncomfortable with, I will find someone with more experience and knowledge on it and have them to show me and explain it to me. I would never go in a room and just do something because it is ordered or I was told to do it without getting the ins and outs on how and why first. I am not ashamed to say "Teach me, show me". I want to be able to do the procedure correctly and never ever endanger my patient.

As an LPN in my state, we hang IVPB's, hang blood and give IV push meds such as Lasix and Lopressor to name 2. One thing I feel about ANY procedure no matter the licensure; If you don't know how to do the task, then find someone that does. If there is ever anything I am unsure about or uncomfortable with, I will find someone with more experience and knowledge on it and have them to show me and explain it to me. I would never go in a room and just do something because it is ordered or I was told to do it without getting the ins and outs on how and why first. I am not ashamed to say "Teach me, show me". I want to be able to do the procedure correctly and never ever endanger my patient.

Originally posted by amk1964

look out!!!! ca will become just like texas, oklahoma, fla, and other states that over-extend the role of practical/vocational nurses then want to hire one rn to " sign-off" and/or be "supervising" them. i've been fortunate while here in south texas to work with lvn's willing to do anything to prove themselves, but i've also tried to enlighten them that they are not being paid for the responsibilitie some advanced skills carry with them. i'm from new york which i here is similar to california in delegation issues so i understand your concern. good luck

This is not true. Ive worked quite a few hospitals in Florida. Sometimes I am the only LPN on the floor. There are many RNs I work with side by side. LPNs also. They are not there as only supervisors or to sign off for us.

Do you realize that in the past that most of the work of RNs was done by MDs? That the role of RNs and LPNs have not been over extended but extended to accomodate the larger population as people are living longer. There have also been many many advancements in medicine (thus, longer life spans) and not only the MDs cant keep up with the pace of this but RNs and LPNs as well. Everyones role and scope MUST be extended. In some facilities CNAs are trained and educated in drawing blood. Their role must also be extended. Mind you I did not say over extended.

An example: Some time ago RNs were never allowed to insert central lines. This was the job of the MD. But with people living longer (more advanced medicine) There are many many more people needing central lines. Thus the RNs role was extended to do this procedure. Notice I did not say overextended.

:D PEACE

I look forward to your response

Originally posted by amk1964

look out!!!! ca will become just like texas, oklahoma, fla, and other states that over-extend the role of practical/vocational nurses then want to hire one rn to " sign-off" and/or be "supervising" them. i've been fortunate while here in south texas to work with lvn's willing to do anything to prove themselves, but i've also tried to enlighten them that they are not being paid for the responsibilitie some advanced skills carry with them. i'm from new york which i here is similar to california in delegation issues so i understand your concern. good luck

This is not true. Ive worked quite a few hospitals in Florida. Sometimes I am the only LPN on the floor. There are many RNs I work with side by side. LPNs also. They are not there as only supervisors or to sign off for us.

Do you realize that in the past that most of the work of RNs was done by MDs? That the role of RNs and LPNs have not been over extended but extended to accomodate the larger population as people are living longer. There have also been many many advancements in medicine (thus, longer life spans) and not only the MDs cant keep up with the pace of this but RNs and LPNs as well. Everyones role and scope MUST be extended. In some facilities CNAs are trained and educated in drawing blood. Their role must also be extended. Mind you I did not say over extended.

An example: Some time ago RNs were never allowed to insert central lines. This was the job of the MD. But with people living longer (more advanced medicine) There are many many more people needing central lines. Thus the RNs role was extended to do this procedure. Notice I did not say overextended.

:D PEACE

I look forward to your response

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