Working RNs and the CNA are to blame for new graduate RN program shortages .

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2012

i want to add that i apologize if what i wrote came across like an attack. when i was a student many rns were very gracious to me during clinicals . the words by the chief of staff lit a fire within me and the situation us new grads find ourselves facing can be really trying at times.

I totally understand and appreciate you! It is unfortunate that you are in one of the most difficult job markets in the entire United States. The SF Bay Area employment market is absolutely brutal to new grads right now, and things have been that way since about 2008.

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2012

Teachers in my area make more than most nurses do. Plus they have a nice retirement package, get to retire early, have very cheap insurance premiums and co-pays, which nurses here do not. We don't have any unions for nurses here. If you look at the college program of classes for a teaching degree, you will see that most of the classes are not hard ones, and they can make a 70 to pass them, whereas, in nursing the requirements are a lot higher. My sister got her master's in education at the same time I was in nursing school, and she could not believe how exhausting my nursing program was compared to her's. My first RN job paid me $25, 000 per year; my sister's paid $35,000 per year to teach kindergarten! Then her master's gave her an extra $5,000 per year. Anyway, if anyone thinks I am going to quit my nursing job to allow newcomers to take my job, that isn't going to happen, because I do not get any retirement whatsoever from my hospital, and will have to buy my own insurance at full-price when I retire, and can't count on medicare or social security to be there for me, even though I have paid into it for 40 years so far.

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2012

I have read here that a lot of new grads do not even know how to efficiently start an IV, among many other things nurses do everyday. Back in my nursing program, we had to be able to do everything, from drawing our own blood gases, IV's, etc., and I only had a 5 day orientation. 5 days, period, for a brand-new grad who had never worked in a hospital before. I was hired as charge nurse of a 44 bed telemetry unit, with 2 LPN's to work with. That wasn't a problem, though, because we learned how to function as an RN in nursing school~ including being able to read 12 lead EKG's. Our IV pumps did not figure out dosage rates for us, we had to manually do this ourselves with a calculator, for gtts such as dopamine, etc. I could go on and on, but what I really am trying to say is that today students get a very lengthy orientation, some for months, and it is very costly to the hospitals. The older RN's aren't the problem.

minnymi · Jun 16, 2012

I have read here that a lot of new grads do not even know how to efficiently start an IV, among many other things nurses do everyday. Back in my nursing program, we had to be able to do everything, from drawing our own blood gases, IV's, etc., and I only had a 5 day orientation. 5 days, period, for a brand-new grad who had never worked in a hospital before. I was hired as charge nurse of a 44 bed telemetry unit, with 2 LPN's to work with. That wasn't a problem, though, because we learned how to function as an RN in nursing school~ including being able to read 12 lead EKG's. Our IV pumps did not figure out dosage rates for us, we had to manually do this ourselves with a calculator, for gtts such as dopamine, etc. I could go on and on, but what I really am trying to say is that today students get a very lengthy orientation, some for months, and it is very costly to the hospitals. The older RN's aren't the problem.

this is true, and if you read that thread you'd see that my program was different. i am a "new nurse" and i was shocked that students didn't learn how to start IVs or do other basic nursing skills. i assumed every nursing student did what i did.

and although the facilities all have IV pumps....in my program at least...we had to take tests every semester on how to calculate IV flow rates and compute ml/mg etc. if someone didn't pass the exam then they got a 'redo' but if they failed a second time...they failed the semester. even though we have IV pumps and generally never have to figure flow rates....it was still a requirement to progress through the program.

i did a clinical rotation with a nurse in the cath lab where they didn't have IV pumps because the patients were outpatient and only received fluids for a short time. the 30 year veteran nurse i was shadowing fixed the flow rate manually and said something like, "i know you were probably trained how to use the pump, but this is how we did it in the olden days," to which i replied, "oh, no, i can set it." she was pleasantly surprised.

when i was going through my program i would bicker how we spent too much time on theories and textbooks, but that thread was enlightening. i always heard my program was "one of the best," but now i believe it.

Gold_SJ · Jun 16, 2012

I feel it's truly unfortunate that the economy is so harsh right now and making it so difficult for new grads to start their first job, so wish you all the best in this endeavor.

I do feel however whether an experienced RN decides to stay on in their job isn't particularly a concern for you. Whether they are wanting to buy cars, homes or just try to fund for their grandkids or retirement. Everyone has the right to work and keep working there is no obligation to retire if you're still able and willing from what I can see.

Have you considered moving to a different area? To get some experience in a rural/in need area? You could return with experience under your belt and apply again to the big hospitals, in interview your experience would be regarded more highly then just a beginning new grad if the hospitals are being so money tight.

Sending you well wishes and I do pray you receive that break you need to help you financially and in your career.

minnymi · Jun 16, 2012

I feel it's truly unfortunate that the economy is so harsh right now and making it so difficult for new grads to start their first job, so wish you all the best in this endeavor.
I do feel however whether an experienced RN decides to stay on in their job isn't particularly a concern for you. Whether they are wanting to buy cars, homes or just try to fund for their grandkids or retirement. Everyone has the right to work and keep working there is no obligation to retire if you're still able and willing from what I can see.
Have you considered moving to a different area? To get some experience in a rural/in need area? You could return with experience under your belt and apply again to the big hospitals, in interview your experience would be regarded more highly then just a beginning new grad if the hospitals are being so money tight.
Sending you well wishes and I do pray you receive that break you need to help you financially and in your career.

i agree. in my area....finding a job isn't a problem for new grads. in fact, there are recruiters trying desperately to employ them. the local hospitals even go the university and provide lunches and question/answer sessions for students in hopes that they'll apply for a scholarship where the hospital pays for their education and in turn the student agrees to work for them for X number of years.

BennyRNCA · Jun 16, 2012

You know what's missing in this conversation?

Ask the Chief of Staff why is his own salary and financial perks package so high? Or those of non-nursing management personnel.

I will bet you ALL the upper management staff are over-paid for what they do, get their salaries and how much their retirement package is worth.

When you see nurses on strike, does the upper crust ever look at their own incomes? Yes, they do, at the expense of all the nurses. The more they can cut back salaries and benefits of nurses, while raising the cost of health cost of each patients and reducing the outflow of medical supplies, the more of the "profits" flows back into the upper management.

It's just like some CEO or CFO laying off tons of workers (to improve profits is the story), then closing down offices (since we just laid off 100's, we don't need these unprofitable locations) and then turning around and say look everyone, "I just saved us lots of money, therefore, I (CEO) deserve to give myself a 100% raise in my overall pay structure", while I take a private jet with my family to a private resort on a Fuji island for 2 weeks, then back to Hawaii for another 2 weeks to relax and then one more stop in the Bermuda's for another 2 weeks.

elprup, BSN, RN · Jun 16, 2012

I totally understand and appreciate you! It is unfortunate that you are in one of the most difficult job markets in the entire United States. The SF Bay Area employment market is absolutely brutal to new grads right now, and things have been that way since about 2008.

Yep! I gradated May 2008 and only NOW are many of us finding RN positions after being new grads then old grads. Be thankful you are not in our shoes. Talk about frustrating!!!

murs · Jun 16, 2012

MINNYMI -- what area do you live in?

minnymi · Jun 16, 2012

MINNYMI -- what area do you live in?

northeast tennessee

allnurses Guide · Jun 16, 2012

Until one actually works as an RN, one can't begin to comprehend how much an RN deserves and earns every. single. penny. I would definitely hope if a nurse has been one for quite a while that she/he is able to afford some of the things that improve her/his quality of life outside of the job.

Trust me, the fault doesn't lie in the older/more experienced nurse's salary.

allnurses Guide · Jun 16, 2012

I have to admit, I am laughing a little bit at the CNA being included in the title. CNAs make a paltry pittance for the heavy work they perform.