Work place violence

Whispera, MSN, RN · Nov 1, 2009

I would think the security staff at your facility would have loads of information on keeping the place safe! Have you asked them?

EmergencyNrse · Nov 1, 2009

In our emergency department, it's bad enough we take care of the crazies, but why do we have to worry also about our safety, just wondering if there is any policies or procedures available that we may help to keep our emergency room safe. I would appreciate the input...

You should be concerned for safety each and every time you go to work. For yourself and your patients.

Unfortunately most hospitals policy is directed at deescalation of the hostile situations not interventions. They want you to find someone nice and non-threatening to talk them down :nono: .

The last hospital I worked before traveling you only called security if you wanted a witness before someone killed you. Security was a joke. They were old, slow and were only good @ checking locks, giving directions, that sort of thing. There was nothing "secure" when it came to staff safety. If you needed to hit the panic button then someone called 911. Then you hope and pray nothing bad happens in the time it takes for them to arrive.

The running joke there was "when seconds count... a cop was only MINUTES away".

I have worked in other ER's where we had armed guards. This gave me a little bit more piece of mind but those institutions are few and far between. Many hospitals just don't want the increased liability. Better to let something happen first and play damage control after the fact. Easier, cheaper... unless you're the victim.

Funny, in most states a hospital is a "gun free" zone like schools. I call them "victim" zones because the only people armed will be the evildoers coming to do you harm and nothing is there to stop them. This is a touchy subject because of all the anti-gun nuts that wet themselves by the mere mention of GUN or heaven forbid see one... I have seen people start having observable tremors just by mentioning that I go shooting sometimes. To tell them I was actually carrying....lol, they would lose their minds. :eek:

Personal protection can be argued as an obligation not just a right. I have concealed-carried in 2 hospitals where they were legal and funny thing, nothing ever happened. Not once did my pistol jump out of its holster and start shooting people. Now with personal rights come personal responsibility. I have trained, practiced and registered my firearms all in a legal manner consistent with state & local authority. I will prepare myself whenever possible and be prepared to take immediate action should evil come looking. A cop after all is too heavy to carry around. Ultimately you are the one responsible for your own security and chance favors the prepared mind.

Anyway,

Statistically not much ever really happens in the hospital setting but when it does it doesn't turn out very well for the staff. If you feel vulnerable then I would make your fears known to administration and see what they might do to improve security in your area.

Here's a little something for the anti-gun nuts in .40 caliber:

HealingBalm · Nov 1, 2009

In our emergency department, it's bad enough we take care of the crazies, but why do we have to worry also about our safety, just wondering if there is any policies or procedures available that we may help to keep our emergency room safe. I would appreciate the input...

Thank you for starting this thread. I know that OSHA is a governing body that implements and regulates policy regarding violence in the workplace. I am very concerned that you seem to be unaware of your institutions policies on this matter. There must be, has to be, policies (mandated) in place for workplace violence, just as there are policies for sexual harrassment, etc.

We live in an era of increasing violence. Just look at the number of school shootings that have taken place in the last few years.

I encourage you, and all nurses, to participate in an online petition regarding violence towards healthcare workers.

There is a signiture goal of 2,000. Several states have enacted laws to make it felony to assault any healthcare workers, paramedics, Drs, nurses, etc. Has this law been enacted in your state?

Please support Nurse4Nurse,visit their petition site @http://www.care2.com. When you get to the page, type the following into the little google box: stop the violence against healthcare workers. There are signitures regarding this subject from all around the world! Get the word out! HB

tewdles, RN · Nov 1, 2009

I could never understand why hospital security was not armed. Doesn't make sense to me. For some reason our society is afraid to allow the normal people to have guns...we apparently only want the bad guys to have them.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Nov 2, 2009

I've had more psychotic patients lately than ever ... our security guys are okay for the most part, and not afraid to jump in, but they aren't armed at all. I had a patient recently that was brought in by rescue, and she was WAY out there. She was angry and aggressive -- definitely NOT in the ED voluntarily. The police took forever to arrive after rescue dropped her off (we had to call and ask where they were!), and even though I told them she'd already been threatening staff, they didn't stay. I was not happy about it. Our mental health folks came to see her, and told me she'd be an ECO (emergency containment order), progressing to TDO (temporary detaining order). Great, says I ... so where are the police/deputies that are supposed to be with an ECO?! She tells me she needs to get a bed for the patient first (not true). The deputies didn't show up for hours, until after the mental health worker was long gone, and the TDO was being served. The deputy who was coming to serve the TDO called and asked to speak with the officer with the ECO ... she was a bit shocked to hear the patient was in our ED without law enforcement. She said, "There should be police with her." I said, "THANK YOU! I've been saying that all day." Arrrghh. This is a patient who grabbed my arm and attempted to jack me up (not happenin' ... I'm small but I don't put up with abuse), so I was very disappointed in the lack of law enforcement with this patient. I had security with me every time I stepped in that room -- especially when the patient got 20 mg of Geodon IM. Oh Geodon, how I adore you.

Our police are usually a little more supportive -- we have a great working relationship with our law enforcement folks, so I'm not sure what happened this particular day. Honestly, this is the first time I've been grabbed/assaulted by an able-bodied patient (I'm not counting the demented older folks who get a little grabby or bitey from time to time). It is definitely worrisome to have to add "getting assaulted/battered by patients" to the list of things to worry about in a typical ED workday. Just always make sure you have a means of egress! I never let a patient get between me and the door.

whichone'spink, BSN, RN · Nov 3, 2009

No weapons are allowed at the hospital I work at. And like at other hospitals, security only has tasers. Better than nothing I guess.

I do wonder though: How can nurses who have CC permits adequately conceal their side arm? I know scrubs have lots of pockets, but none are big enough for a gun.

trainer2070 · Nov 3, 2009

Unfortunately, I don't think most hospitals take security seriously. Personally, I think hospital security officers should have more training and should also have fitness standards. They should also be provided with the tools necessary to keep themselves and the staff safe.I see way to many out of shape and or geriatric officers that are physically unable to get around the hospital when needed and are then unable to deal with the individual when they finally do get there.

I'm a security officer at a level 1 trauma center and I carry a firearm, baton, oc spray and handcuffs. In addition we also had tasers, however they decided to temporarily take them away pending a position statement from the AMA and the state hospital association. We also wear level III body armor, so I definitely have the physical tools necessary to keep myself and the staff safe. At the same time I'm torn on the armed vs unarmed topic. We've had 1 incident on my shift in the last year where an officer drew down on a subject. Technically that draw was also a violation of our use of force policy and use of firearm policy as it was classified as a hostage incident and the policies clearly indicate that we are not allowed to ever draw our firearm in a hostage situation. Inside the hospital there are too many things to worry about when drawing and using my weapon such as the person in the next room, medical gas lines in the walls, o2 cylinders and when and where my bullet is actually going to stop after I fire it. Plus you also have to be alot more aware of weapon retention when 4 pointing a combative in ED. Normally, you can just go in take em down and strap em to the bed. But with the firearm it seems that once someone gets a glimpse of it, thats all they have on their mind. Most of us agree that 99.999999% of the time we would rather have a K-9 unit then firearms, but at the same time none of us want to be put in a position where we need our firearm and no longer have it.

Editorial Team / Moderator · Nov 3, 2009

I'm a security officer at a level 1 trauma center and I carry a firearm, baton, oc spray and handcuffs.

Now that is more like it! :) I'd love to have you at our facility some nights.

tewdles, RN · Nov 3, 2009

No weapons are allowed at the hospital I work at. And like at other hospitals, security only has tasers. Better than nothing I guess.
I do wonder though: How can nurses who have CC permits adequately conceal their side arm? I know scrubs have lots of pockets, but none are big enough for a gun.

My DH got me a thingie that keeps it at the small of my back...pretty comfortable and concealed well by most clothing.

Also...the canine units are wonderful...I agree that they are more accurate and generally safer than guns! I also have canine protection, 120lbs of cute!

EmergencyNrse · Nov 3, 2009

I do wonder though: How can nurses who have CC permits adequately conceal their side arm? I know scrubs have lots of pockets, but none are big enough for a gun.

Loose scrubs. At least one size larger. Shirt not tucked in.

A secure belt and an inside-the-garment holster. Fits nicely in the small of my back.

Glock-31 in .357, Sig 228 in 9mm, and more recently a Springfield XD-40 Tactical. Great sizes for CC.

The composite frames are a little more comfortable I think. I use to really love my Kimber 1911 in .45 but it kept pulling my pants down to my ankles. OOOooops.

tewdles, RN · Nov 4, 2009

okay...nice gun. Mine is a little Star 9mm semi...I like it.