With the bad economy do you think that LPN/LVN employment will rise?

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 27, 2009

I have often wondered about this. I am an LPN that has chosen not to return for the RN because I am perfectly satisfied with what I do, now. I do hope I don't suffer from that decision. What I have seen over the years is the shift from the LPN side of the pendulum, to the RN, then, back and forth. An example is when I was a CNA at a hospital (I am now an LPN at the same place), they laid off several RNs about 12 years ago, leaving just a few and having more LPNs cover. Now, they are not terminating or laying off LPNs, but are not replacing them if they leave through attrition; the move is the BSN nurse for now. Especially since two hospitals within a 5 mile radius closed down the same day in Feb, 2009. And, these hospitals did utilize LPNs until the last day.

xoemmylouox, ASN, RN · May 28, 2009

I have heard of this flip flop of LPNs and RNs in the hospital setting. Around here the hospitals are pretty much all RN no LPN. It was more balanced, but the last few years they switched. Who knows, maybe after all is said and done they will switch back. Right now most of our hospitals are under hiring freezes so they aren't hiring anyone RN or LPN.

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 28, 2009

Oh, yeah, for sure. Most city hospitals (such as mine) in my area retain LPNs, but none of the city hospitals are hiring right now. What they did was after the two major hospitals closed, the state gave some money to the remaining facilities to hire some extra nurses since we are picking up the slack. They are now taking advantage of hiring BSN nurses and probably paying them less than the incumbant. They are getting better nurses (hate to say), but for less than what they were making at the private hospitals that unceremoniously laid them off. Those private facilities also used LPNs, but, now, who knows what will happen??

However, yes, there was always a flip flop situation happening in my hospital between the LPNs and RNs...sometimes, the LPN was the best thing walking (way before my time, unfortunately...) and then, the RN became the flavor. LPNs used to be in charge of the floors on the evening and night tours with one RN per 2 or 3 floors. Now, things shifted.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · May 28, 2009

Yes, LPN/LVN employment will rise in the near future, and I'm not being overly emotional or optimistic when I state this. I'm basing my conjecture on the demographic changes that will soon hit the healthcare facilities.

There are currently 77 million middle-aged baby boomers currently living in the U.S. that were born during the post-WWII years of 1946 to 1964. The oldest of the baby boomers are presently turning 63 years old, while the youngest of this generation is 45 years of age.

This demographic shift will have serious implications for the nursing community and healthcare as a whole, because masses of elderly people will be entering our hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, hospice agencies, and home health agencies very soon. These baby boomers will be older, sicker, more obese, more sedentary, and live longer than the generation before them.

Just give it some time. LPNs/LVNs will have a role in caring for these millions of people.

Fiona59 · May 28, 2009

Alberta Health Services has come out and said that RNs are too expensive and more LPNs should be utilized in all areas of the service.

Managers are being "encouraged" to evaluate every vacant RN position and determine if the PN skill set mets the needs.

Hmm, on medicine and surgery units in my hospital, the answer would be yes, the Charge could attach the blood bag and walk away, just like the RNs already.

navvet · Jun 1, 2009

Commuter, your make a great point, let me throw you some food for thought. Supply and Demand does wonders for an industry subset. Look at the Software industry. Employment rise for lpns? sure, why not. But, will there be an opportunity cost associated with the rise of needed services?

YES. Let me explain. Opportunity cost, is to forego an unknown opportunity for a percieved better opportunity. Our Congressional Idiots, and the Lobbying groups they, tenderly care for and support, are at this very instant talking about a Nationalized Health care system (opportunity). But, who looses in the end. Policeman, Fireman, and Teachers have alreadly lost with minimal pay and the Nurses will as well. Who controls those professions pay? Local gov., who depend on subsidies from the fed. who then dictate matters of policy and ultimately fiscal spending. The pay sucks and in some locations ain't worth it.

Now, as far as Nationlalized Health care (under the guize of HC reform act or something clever) The gov. will put a band aid on a gapping wound. Nothing is free, mind you. So, you say "What is your point Already!" Well, I am glad you asked. An RN/LPNs position to a hosp. bottom line is the MOST costly, (payout/liability). Where do you cut cost, hmmmmmm let me see. Oh I know, you can fire all of you staff. Ah, NO, but you can cap the wages of the staff, to control/lower cost. What is the average RN pay nation wide? About, $50k. how about a cut to the average GDP of $36k before taxes across the board (just what we all need, a pay cut), all the while the cost of living rises. Average mortgage in America 2009 is $250K, plus other life expenses (gotta have Internet, right?)

The Gov. Never sticks its dirty little fingers into a pie, unless they can manipulate the circumstances to their favor. Lobby groups,corporations etc. who give the most campaign contributions and keep the politican employed; they get the gov. contract. Now that you already control the military (constitutionaly) and the Police, Fire, and how our children are educated. You now move to control the banking and the Healthcare and we have a Socialist society. Trying to better yourself through education, entrepenuerial spirit.... forget about it.

Right now, the Nurse Profession is ripe for a Nationalized Union. I don't see a gov bankrupting the skilled services of a Nurse, like they have for the Auto industry. UHC is inevitable but, there needs to be an entity that holds the long arm of Big Brother in check. The Nurse profession, at this time in our nations history, wields great power in their favor.

Thankyou, I'll be here all week.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jun 2, 2009

Commuter, your make a great point, let me throw you some food for thought. Supply and Demand does wonders for an industry subset. Look at the Software industry. Employment rise for lpns? sure, why not. But, will there be an opportunity cost associated with the rise of needed services?
YES. Let me explain. Opportunity cost, is to forego an unknown opportunity for a percieved better opportunity. Our Congressional Idiots, and the Lobbying groups they, tenderly care for and support, are at this very instant talking about a Nationalized Health care system (opportunity). But, who looses in the end. Policeman, Fireman, and Teachers have alreadly lost with minimal pay and the Nurses will as well. Who controls those professions pay? Local gov., who depend on subsidies from the fed. who then dictate matters of policy and ultimately fiscal spending. The pay sucks and in some locations ain't worth it.
Now, as far as Nationlalized Health care (under the guize of HC reform act or something clever) The gov. will put a band aid on a gapping wound. Nothing is free, mind you. So, you say "What is your point Already!" Well, I am glad you asked. An RN/LPNs position to a hosp. bottom line is the MOST costly, (payout/liability). Where do you cut cost, hmmmmmm let me see. Oh I know, you can fire all of you staff. Ah, NO, but you can cap the wages of the staff, to control/lower cost. What is the average RN pay nation wide? About, $50k. how about a cut to the average GDP of $36k before taxes across the board (just what we all need, a pay cut), all the while the cost of living rises. Average mortgage in America 2009 is $250K, plus other life expenses (gotta have Internet, right?)
The Gov. Never sticks its dirty little fingers into a pie, unless they can manipulate the circumstances to their favor. Lobby groups,corporations etc. who give the most campaign contributions and keep the politican employed; they get the gov. contract. Now that you already control the military (constitutionaly) and the Police, Fire, and how our children are educated. You now move to control the banking and the Healthcare and we have a Socialist society. Trying to better yourself through education, entrepenuerial spirit.... forget about it.
Right now, the Nurse Profession is ripe for a Nationalized Union. I don't see a gov bankrupting the skilled services of a Nurse, like they have for the Auto industry. UHC is inevitable but, there needs to be an entity that holds the long arm of Big Brother in check. The Nurse profession, at this time in our nations history, wields great power in their favor.
Thankyou, I'll be here all week.

The question I have is this; when you say that the Nurse profession wields great power in their favor, which nurse are you referring to...the RNs only or is this inclusive to LPNs as well?

I work for an agency that sends vaccination nurses to Armed Services to administer shots before they are sent across the seas as well as to their reserves. They used to utilize a fair mixture of LPNs and RNs. Now, they send one RN and more LPNs because of the budget crises. At this time, at this particular agency, the pendulum sways towards more LPNs, but what happens when things settle? In most cases, the LPN falls back and then, the RN is the flavor of the month, so to speak. I just feel that when we speak of nurses banding together, this should be inclusive of all licensed titles, not selected to just some.

navvet · Jun 3, 2009

pagandadeva2000, All Nurses. Ever here the phrase "A nurse, is a nurse, is a nurse."

There are over a million nurses that practice right now? My number could be skewed but, at any rate. I believe it is so vitally important to this profession to have a National Union to keep the gov. from capping wages at some point. Take a look at the salaries of Nurses in England. Heck, even doctors cross the pond don't make what a doc. makes here. It boils down to nothing more than who will control the future of the American Nurse Profession "Politicians" or the "Workers" (Money, always Money). I would say to all Nurses. Better start organizing and put personal differences and attitudes aside. Look at the UAW union, the politicians pander in their favor over and over. Why, because they slap that politician in the hand with some green and use the other to pat him on the back. The only disadvantage to them is, the corporations can ship every single manf. job overseas.

They can not send the sick overseas. They can however, immigrate forgein trained nurses here. Only if, American Trained nurses don't stand up and say absolutely not. One can NOT do that, with out some REAL clout in D.C. Their is POWER in NUMBERS and it is a numbers game. California - not sure but, did they not step away from the ANA and form their own state union, which by and large has capped pt ratios and outlawed manditory OT etc., in that state ?

BTW, please don't misunderstand my statements concerning Nurses who may be from another country, if you are a citizen or are now at this time going through the patriotic process of becoming a U.S. Citizen, that is just dandy. I am talking about a down right under handed ploy, to give working visa's to a forgein trainind nurse to fill a gap, or to just get rid of those who may oppose a wage cap, due to a Nationalized Health Care sys. yada yada yada.