will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

[Trauma_Team_1]

I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

[DeLySh]

Do you really make that much money that you would be paying a larger portion than every one else? And you have insurance that covers everything with an itty bitty deductible? Where do you work and how do I get your job?

BTW, you already pay for poor people with lower incomes and children... it's called KidCare, Medicaid, and Welfare. UHC would be for the rest of us who work our butts off but may not be so lucky as some of our peers. I know that I already pay far more into health insurance than I have used or most likely will ever use... but insurance is supposed to be a safety net. I truly hope for your sake that you will never "get your money's worth" out of your insurance.

Do you really think that any money I have (or anything else I have) is a result of luck? I worked really hard and sacrificed much so that I could be lucky.

FWIW, I believe that to get "my money's worth" out of any insurance I have, that they cover, at least somewhat, a condition that I am afflicted with. UHC will most probably not cover me but I would still be required to participate and my freedom of choice is reduced or eliminated. To me, that is not fair or reasonable.

Right now about 35% of my paycheck is taken away from me and used for whatever the gov't wants. On top of that, I pay for health insurance. When I use my health insurance, I get to pay a co-pay for what I need and have to fulfill a deductible. The health insurance I pay for is of my choosing. I can pay for it or not through my employer or I can buy a personal policy. With this freedom, I can choose one that might cover my affliction. With UHC, that choice will be taken away and I will still be required to pay out of my wages. Because I am so lucky and have no reason to want to keep any of the money I earn, I would pay a larger percentage than some others.

On topic: In order to keep the people happy, I fully believe that the costs of healthcare will be manipulated to keep them low. In order to do that, salaries will have to come down because that is the easiest thing to control. I do not trust the gov't, or anyone who might be in the decision making chair, to think of people like me when they make these choices.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

If you have insurance by definition other people are contributing to the cost of your medical care. Anyone who has insurance is being supported by others.

The key is that everyone who uses the insurance is also paying into it. That's a major difference compared to all using and only some paying.

[tfunkrn]

I just wanted to share what HR 676 is about.. I hope this is not off-topic, as it does talk about compensation to physicians and healthcare providers. I have the link here for reference, as well. Many of the things being said about 'Universal Healthcare' is not what is stated in the bill. Thanks.. and again, I am sorry if this is off-topic. Thanks

http://www.guaranteedhealthcare.org/legislation/hr-676-conyers/united-states-national-health-insurance-act

How it would help!

HR 676 establishes an American-styled national health insurance program. The bill would create a publicly financed, privately delivered health care program that uses the already existing Medicare program by expanding and improving it to all U.S. residents, and all residents living in U.S. territories. The goal of the legislation is to ensure that all Americans, guaranteed by law, will have access to the highest quality and cost effective health care services regardless of ones employment, income, or health care status.

With over 45-75 million uninsured Americans, and another 50 million who are under insured, it is time to change our inefficient and costly fragmented health care system.

Physicians For A National Health Program reports that under a Medicare For All plan, we could save over $286 billion dollars a year in total health care costs.

We would move away from our present system where annual family premiums have increased upwards to $9,068 this year.

Under HR 676, a family of three making $40,000 per year would spend approximately $1600 per year for health care coverage.

Medicare for All would allow the United States to reduce its almost $2 trillion health care expenditure per year while covering all of the uninsured and everybody else for more than they are getting under their current health care plans.

In 2005, without reform, the average employer who offers coverage will contribute $2,600 to health care per employee (for much skimpier benefits).

Under HR 676, the average costs to employers for an employee making $30,000 per year will be reduced to $1,155 per year; less than $100 per month.

Who is Eligible!

Every person living in the United States and the U.S. Territories would receive a United States National Health Insurance Card and identification number once they enroll at the appropriate location. Social Security numbers may not be used when assigning identification. cards. No co-pays or deductibles are permissible under this act.

Health Care Services Covered!

This program will cover all medically-necessary services, including primary care, inpatient care, outpatient care, emergency care, prescription drugs, durable medical equipment, long term care, mental health services, dentistry, eye care, chiropractic, and substance abuse treatment. Patients have their choice of physicians, providers, hospitals, clinics, and practices. Medicare will be improved and everybody will get it.

Conversion to A Non-Profit Health Care System!

Private health insurers shall be prohibited under this act from selling coverage that duplicates the benefits of the Medicare for All program.

Cost Containment Provisions/Reimbursement

The Medicare for All program will annually set reimbursement rates for physicians, health care providers; and negotiate prescription drug prices. The national office will provide an annual lump sum allotment to each existing Medicare region, which will then administer the program. Payment to health care providers include fee for service, and global budgets. Doctors will be paid based on their current reimbursement rates. The conversion to a not-for- profit health care system will take place over a 15 year period, through the sale of U.S. treasury bonds;

Administration!

The United States Congress will establish annual funding outlays for the Medicare for All program through an annual entitlement, to be administered by the Medicare program. A U. S. National Health Insurance Advisory Board will be established, comprised primarily of health care professionals and representatives of citizen health advocacy groups.

Proposed Funding

Maintaining current federal and state funding of existing health care programs! A modest payroll tax on all employers and employees of 3.3% each. A 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners. A small tax on stock and bond transfers. Closing corporate tax loop-holes, and repealing the Bush tax cut for the highest 1% of income earners.

[CRNA2007]

Luck had nothing to do with getting where I have gotten in life. You want extra coversge take another part time job. Work more overtime. Work weekends. Health insurance is not a safety net that is what disability insurance is. That is what saving and investing your money is. That is what life insurance is. I worked hard to get where I am and everyone else should as well. If you aren't where you think you need to be then you aren't working hard enough to get there.

UHC would be for the rest of us who work our butts off but may not be so lucky as some of our peers. I know that I already pay far more into health insurance than I have used or most likely will ever use... but insurance is supposed to be a safety net. I truly hope for your sake that you will never "get your money's worth" out of your insurance.

[CRNA2007]

This would cost me almost $16,000 per year. Thanks, but no thanks. That is just for starters wait until the tax becomes 10% and the payroll tax becomes 7%. This scheme will never fly. I got a better idea you need health care but can't afford it at your current job. Get a new job or get a 2nd job to pay for it.

Maintaining current federal and state funding of existing health care programs! A modest payroll tax on all employers and employees of 3.3% each. A 5% health tax on the top 5% of income earners. A small tax on stock and bond transfers. Closing corporate tax loop-holes, and repealing the Bush tax cut for the highest 1% of income earners.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Luck had nothing to do with getting where I have gotten in life. You want extra coversge take another part time job. Work more overtime. Work weekends. Health insurance is not a safety net that is what disability insurance is. That is what saving and investing your money is. That is what life insurance is. I worked hard to get where I am and everyone else should as well. If you aren't where you think you need to be then you aren't working hard enough to get there.

You are assuming that this person isn't already working OT or working weekends, or working another part time job. You are assuming that she's not already doing the things you suggested. Everything is not so 'cut-and-dry' as you're making it out to be, and 'get another job' is not the solution to every problem.

[Jolie, BSN]

Luck had nothing to do with getting where I have gotten in life.

CRNA,

I couldn't agree more. I occasionally hear "how lucky I am to be able to stay home with my children."

I respond that luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Planning, sacrifice and hard work have everything to do with it.

My parents told me and my siblings that we could either go to college or move out on our own immediately after high school. None of us received a dime of scholarship, financial aid or grant money. We paid our way thru college upfont, and graduated without debt.

Hubby and I chose to delay childbearing until we were established in our careers and had decent-paying jobs with insurance and other benefits. We live well within our means, owing nothing on credit cards, car loans or house payments. We save and invest, established retirement accounts as soon as we were out of college, and contribute the maximum amount we can. We have college funds for our children.

We have focused our efforts on advancing hubby's career, as his earning potential is far greater than mine. This has meant numerous sacrifices, including moving away from "home" to pursue further education and opportunities that have increased his experience and stature in his field, leading to greater earnings.

We have risked financial security to establish our own business, which is in its infancy. If it fails, we will absorb the loss. If it succeeds, we will pay substantial taxes on our earnings.

We pay state and federal income tax, SS and Medicare tax, property tax, capital gains on investments, and our children potentially face significant estate taxes in the future. We pay for our own (as well as subsidize lower-paid employees) insurance thru our employer. We neither need nor want taxpayer funded healthcare. We would much perfer to opt out and provide for ourselves as we do now. Same with SS. I'd gladly let the feds keep the tens of thousands of dollars they have already extracted from hubby and I over the past 30 years, if they would just allow us to opt out now. We (like most Americans) are capable people who neither need nor want government programs or interference in our lives. I'll gamble on myself, and it has nothing to do with luck!

[CRNA2007]

I hear ya. I worked very hard to get where I am. I left my wife here in the states for 14 months while I went overseas to work. I was a traveling RN when my son was born and saw him 4x for the first 5 months of his life. It really gets old hearing from people who have no ambition in life sit around and criticize the doers in this society. I am so ready to get rid of social insecurity and go to private accounts and invest that money myself. If you ever look at all the places that were able to opt out of social security and go with a PERS type of retirement system these people are getting over $4000/month just from their retirement. If I am not mistaken I believe Congress does not utilize social security but I could be wrong about that.

CRNA,

I couldn't agree more. I occasionally hear "how lucky I am to be able to stay home with my children."

I respond that luck had absolutely nothing to do with it. Planning, sacrifice and hard work have everything to do with it.

My parents told me and my siblings that we could either go to college or move out on our own immediately after high school. None of us received a dime of scholarship, financial aid or grant money. We paid our way thru college upfont, and graduated without debt.

Hubby and I chose to delay childbearing until we were established in our careers and had decent-paying jobs with insurance and other benefits. We live well within our means, owing nothing on credit cards, car loans or house payments. We save and invest, established retirement accounts as soon as we were out of college, and contribute the maximum amount we can. We have college funds for our children.

We have focused our efforts on advancing hubby's career, as his earning potential is far greater than mine. This has meant numerous sacrifices, including moving away from "home" to pursue further education and opportunities that have increased his experience and stature in his field, leading to greater earnings.

We have risked financial security to establish our own business, which is in its infancy. If it fails, we will absorb the loss. If it succeeds, we will pay substantial taxes on our earnings.

We pay state and federal income tax, SS and Medicare tax, property tax, capital gains on investments, and our children potentially face significant estate taxes in the future. We pay for our own (as well as subsidize lower-paid employees) insurance thru our employer. We neither need nor want taxpayer funded healthcare. We would much perfer to opt out and provide for ourselves as we do now. Same with SS. I'd gladly let the feds keep the tens of thousands of dollars they have already extracted from hubby and I over the past 30 years, if they would just allow us to opt out now. We (like most Americans) are capable people who neither need nor want government programs or interference in our lives. I'll gamble on myself, and it has nothing to do with luck!

[CRNA2007]

I am making that assumption, much as people on here assume everyone is working three jobs 130 hours a week. Or my personal favorite three minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. Or one paycheck away from being homeless, which has since been replaced with one injury away from being destitute.

You are assuming that this person isn't already working OT or working weekends, or working another part time job. You are assuming that she's not already doing the things you suggested. Everything is not so 'cut-and-dry' as you're making it out to be, and 'get another job' is not the solution to every problem.

[tfunkrn]

I am making that assumption, much as people on here assume everyone is working three jobs 130 hours a week. Or my personal favorite three minimum wage jobs to make ends meet. Or one paycheck away from being homeless, which has since been replaced with one injury away from being destitute.

I work to live, not live to work. There are people with other opinions in this world, and just because you feel one way is right for you, does not mean it is right for everyone else. Judge not, lest you be judged.

I am not religious, but I am 'spiritual', and live by the creed 'Do No Harm'. I am an RN, my father was an OB/GYN, I have 3 sons, all 3 with PhDs.. one in research in DC, and 2 Pharmacists. I have lived, breathed, and discussed issues in healthcare all of my life. I empathize with each profession, because all of these have issues exclusive to their own, I was brought up to believe a 'real' healthcare worker has empathy for all, and does not seek to merely 'capitalize' on others misfortunes.

I am not 'rich', but I am thankful every day that I have a roof over my head and food in my tummy. When I have a patient that arrives in the ICU that has met up with tragedy, I am able to empathize.. 'There by the grace of God go I'.

People who have insurance are having to fight to get the benefits they have paid for, while at their weakest. They need their strength to recuperate. The bill, as it is written, does not say that our salaries are diminishing, and again, I think spreading the rumour that this will happen are people who are in fear that if it passes, someone will find out how little they really do, and their job will be eliminated. Is this why you are fighting against this bill?

I have noticed that there are a lot of students in the forums. I will offer you the same advice given me. If you are becoming a nurse in hopes of getting rich, and this is your only motivation, get out now. If you are becoming a nurse to help others and make a difference, I welcome you. It can be a thankless job at times, but when you are able to intervene, and help make a difference, the smile on their face is worth more than gold.:heartbeat

[advocateforsafety]

Luck had nothing to do with getting where I have gotten in life. You want extra coversge take another part time job. Work more overtime. Work weekends. Health insurance is not a safety net that is what disability insurance is. That is what saving and investing your money is. That is what life insurance is. I worked hard to get where I am and everyone else should as well. If you aren't where you think you need to be then you aren't working hard enough to get there.

You fail to acknowledge the fact that many people work hard and are doing the best they can but are not able to achieve the successs that you have. This does not make them failures or deserving of the pain and suffering that comes with lack of health coverage for their children or themselves. Your lack of compassion is disturbing to me.

No one is attempting to take away from your accomplishments but when did your circumstances become the yard stick that all others are measured? I believe your pride has trumped your humility.

[Jolie, BSN]

No one is attempting to take away from your accomplishments but when did your circumstances become the yard stick that all others are measured? I believe your pride has trumped your humility.

I am going to be presumptious and respond here in defense of CRNA.

No one is measuring accomplishments by the standards of high earners. Based on our tax return, many of the posters here would label us rich. If you visited my home, I believe your opinion would be different. Our home is modest. Our cars are not the newest or best. We spend most of our earnings on daily living expenses, and the rest goes to savings and a few indulgences. We heavily support charitible organizations of our choice, both with time and money.

What I am trying to say in my posts is that being able to provide an acceptable standard of living, provide healthcare for one's family, and contribute to worthy causes has much to do with graduating H.S., marriage before parenthood, full-time employment, and living within one's means. These are not lofty or unreachable standards.