Will nurses in the ER soon hear the following?

chare · Sep 13, 2021

2 hours ago, DesiDani said:

[...]

Remember you can't deny treatment to the belligerent.

Really?

SmilingBluEyes · Sep 14, 2021

Hmmmm

well so far 95 percent across the board are not vaccinated. But they are too sick to be too belligerent. As yet.

Let's cross that bridge when we get to it, hmmm?

JKL33 · Sep 14, 2021

On 9/13/2021 at 12:35 PM, DesiDani said:

" I'm vaccinated you ***** you have to take care of me, NOW!"

I don't understand who and what this is in reference to. People who have decided to get vaccinated? Are people who have not been vaccinated not being taken care of in emergency departments?

Regardless, EMTALA already does not actually require the pandering that businesses prefer to do so that they can increase their ED billing and their satisfaction scores. EMTALA requires screening for an EMC and stabilization +/- transfer if one is found. That is all in a nutshell. So whoever they are, they either have an EMC or they don't. They also don't determine when to have their turn.

DesiDani · Sep 14, 2021

4 hours ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

But they are too sick to be too belligerent

Not all COVID positive patients on isolation in a hospital are on their death beds in ICU. Some are on med/surg units. Yes they are on O2, but they are alert, talking, and using their call lights. Did you think I wasnt going to point out that fact?

1 hour ago, JKL33 said:

don't understand who and what this is in reference to. People who have decided to get vaccinated? Are people who have not been vaccinated not being taken care of in emergency departments

Don't play contrived ignorance. In the acceptable media, some are openly questioning if unvaccinated people should be denied medical treatment. To expand on my question a vaccinated person who is belligerent who has no medical issues, is yelling and cursing to the point that they have to be placed in the ambulance bay. Is there to eventually sleep of their etoh. Is more welcomed than a civilized patient who can't breath who is not vaccinated?

DesiDani · Sep 14, 2021

If someone is A&O with covid I don't understand why they are at the hospital. Home O2 and home visit is good enough. As for family in their home, that is on them. I had a friend who mom had TB when she was little. It was on her mom to have the kids stay with their grandparents until she was clear. If that is not doable than foster care.

JKL33 · Sep 14, 2021

27 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

Don't play contrived ignorance.

I routinely ask people what they mean before assuming if I'm not sure. I try to anyway. If I choose to assume and am wrong then I will feel stupid and will risk having to read a lecture about not making assumptions, which I don't find pleasant.

30 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

To expand on my question a vaccinated person who is belligerent who has no medical issues, is yelling and cursing to the point that they have to be placed in the ambulance bay. Is there to eventually sleep of their etoh. Is more welcomed than a civilized patient who can't breath who is not vaccinated?

I don't know anything about putting people in an ambulance bay to sleep off EtOH. Nor do I have any reason to think they would be more "welcomed" than a patient who can't breathe, whether vaccinated or not. Patients are not prioritized by whether the staff is glad to see them or not, they are triaged and given priority according to their medical/psychiatric scenario and the risks thereof. Care is subsequently provided according to the needs of their scenario and/or the risks thereof.

If disaster were to be declared sort of like mass casualty incident due to extreme demands on resources then I suppose it's plausible that someone might suggest patients should be triaged according to such protocols, which involve the likelihood of success/survival should resources be expended on a given patient. Overall I would prefer to be one who is 10x less likely to be hospitalized or die from covid-19 (I.e. vaccinated). According to MMWR/CDC.

I do not think EDs will soon be dealing with the scenario you posted in the OP.

I have seen some opinions online similar to those you reference. The discussions I have read appear to be expressing a significant feeling of injustice and possibly moral injury that would be related to (a medical provider) not being able to provide priority assistance to someone who tried to prevent significant illness because resources are being used by someone who purposely shunned or at least significantly avoided a much more available resource--and whose odds of survival are comparatively reduced by having done so. I think people have as much right/freedom to discuss these feelings as people do to discuss vaccine fears.

Susie2310 · Sep 14, 2021

I think it is quite possible that staff in some ERs' could hear the words spoken in the OP. I just read about a geographic location with a low Covid vaccination rate that has just activated Covid crisis standards of care for a segment of the area's hospitals, meaning health care rationing.

I would find it tremendously frustrating to be a Covid vaccinated person needing care at a hospital or to have a Covid vaccinated loved one needing hospital care, and then to find that the hospital is overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients to the point that some vaccinated people seeking care for heart attacks, strokes, sepsis, etc. can't receive the normal standard of care and are being given comfort care only. I can definitely imagine situations where tempers are flying. I can forsee not just the words spoken in the OP being uttered, but much worse.

Guest219794 · Sep 14, 2021

On 9/13/2021 at 12:35 PM, DesiDani said:

" I'm vaccinated you ***** you have to take care of me, NOW!"

Remember you can't deny treatment to the belligerent.

What on earth are you talking about?

DesiDani · Sep 15, 2021

4 hours ago, JKL33 said:

I don't know anything about putting people in an ambulance bay to sleep off EtOH.

That's where we keep the entertainers until their performance is over. Amazingly when they don't have an audience they chill out.

Guest219794 · Sep 15, 2021

5 hours ago, DesiDani said:

Don't play contrived ignorance. In the acceptable media, some are openly questioning if unvaccinated people should be denied medical treatment. To expand on my question a vaccinated person who is belligerent who has no medical issues, is yelling and cursing to the point that they have to be placed in the ambulance bay. Is there to eventually sleep of their etoh. Is more welcomed than a civilized patient who can't breath who is not vaccinated?

Seriously. What are you talking about?

What the heck is "acceptable media"?
Who the heck is denying care to the unvaccinated?
Why the heck are you putting drunks in an ambulance bay? Stop doing that.

JKL33 · Sep 15, 2021

2 hours ago, Susie2310 said:

I would find it tremendously frustrating to be a Covid vaccinated person needing care at a hospital or to have a Covid vaccinated loved one needing hospital care, and then to find that the hospital is overwhelmed with unvaccinated Covid patients to the point that some vaccinated people seeking care for heart attacks, strokes, sepsis, etc. can't receive the normal standard of care and are being given comfort care only. I can definitely imagine situations where tempers are flying. I can forsee not just the words spoken in the OP being uttered, but much worse.

Ah. Yes. I can see how that scenario could play out.

I wasn't sure if this post was about vaccine resisters feeling forced to get vaccinated (due to mandates) and then being belligerent or being angry because they believed they had been pressured to do something they didn't want to do in order to get care. (?) That is why I asked for clarification...I guess I still didn't understand.

I guess maybe what the OP is about is people demanding to receive care on their timeline (ahead of the unvaxxed) due to being vaccinated. And I think in that scenario it is going to come down to triage, whether or not that process includes crisis standards of care.