Why are Nursing Programs so Cruel to Students

Isitpossible, LPN, LVN · Jul 28, 2011

Thats sounds horrible. My nursing program is nothing like that Thank God. We have to abide by the rules, but their not ogres.

soon_2Bnurse · Aug 1, 2011

I would really like to hear both sides of this? If there is an instructor online that thinks this is "normal" or "abnormal" or students that have either dealt with this or not..please post. And...thanks

Pneumothorax, BSN, RN · Aug 1, 2011

goodness...where do u live im so sorry

jjjoy, LPN · Aug 1, 2011

My school was certainly quick to put a person on warning to fail status for what could seem to be very minor, easily correctable issues or contestable borderline grades (such as the example the OP gave) and make it sound as if the student had committed some inexcusable error that indicated they were horribly inadequate/ irresponsible/etc (even though there were plenty of other possibly fail-worthy mistakes that were never addressed so punatively). But with the dire warning, they did usually offer one more chance to "prove oneself" and if the next hurdle was passed, then the student was back in good standing - though never totally secure that some other small something might land them out of the program without any more "second chances". Looking back, my conspiracy theory tendences wonder if it was almost part of the curriculum for every student, not matter how strong academically or clinically, to experience the threat of being failed from the program at some point in their time as a student. So our program had the threat that anyone might fail at any time but the actual fail rate was relatively low.

CrimsonAlchemist · Aug 2, 2011

I start an accelerated RN program in less than a month and ya'll are really scaring me...I've heard that the program I'm starting is really hard. It's an 18 month program that gets me straight to RN. I will totally skip LPN.

I'mma have nightmares worrying about this now o.0

Romie1der · Aug 2, 2011

Sounds like my program!!! The atmosphere is not conducive to success. The instructors all ride atop their high horses while aiming for the throats of students with their bayonets. We're required to maintain an average of 80 and above; many students fail out with 79.3. They are unforgiving and vindictive whenever you attempt to challenge a policy you recognize as unfair.

I for one am not enjoying my nursing school experience.The sooner I finish, the better!

bloodlikefire · Aug 2, 2011

a nurse is taking care of your loved one, that nurse just barely passed nursing school with a 75.1%, it takes them 6 tries to pass the nclex-rn. how would you feel in this situation? do you want this person in charge of life and death situations involving your loved ones.

i know this post is going to cause some flames to start, and yes i know good nurses that have taken multiple attempts at nclex-rn, this is just a devils adequate post to point out that nursing schools have a duty to make sure that most members that graduate and finish school will be competent nurses when they finish, and not have their licenses revoked after a short time.

if 80% is a pass a 79.3% is not enough. if they bend the rules for a 79.3 they must bend the rule for a 78.7 or a 76.3. do you want this person taking care of your loved ones?

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Aug 2, 2011

Hi folks,
Ok, so I have been an LPN for 4 years, started college from scratch after one year of full time as a LPN because I knew I wanted to do more than a LPN can do within the scope of practice. I am half way through a 4 semester program to get my AAS in nursing.
Why does it seem that absolutely everything is a struggle? There is no empathy AT ALL within the administration. In the last two semesters we went from 72 students to 34. Examples of what I mean are as follows.
1) Student is in top 10% of class, we have a 10 question test on fluid and electrolytes and the student gets metabolic and respiratory confused. 8 of the answers were respiratory, he gets them all wrong..out of the program..remediation 1 year later if he so chooses.
I have a feeling that this is probably a rumor unless you actually saw his test. If he was in the top 10%, then he should have studied more accurately for this test (doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if you confuse the two, you'll screw up a test pretty quick, same with determining acidosis vs alkalosis...you only have TWO selections)...and he should have been able to pull that grade up.
I would have MADE SURE I knew it if there were only going to be 10 questions on an exam. However, the lack of questions in my opinion, shows a poor quality nursing program if that is all you are getting tested.
2) Weather doesn't mean anything; it may be raining on campus, but for myself, who drives 70 miles EACH WAY to get there, it is snowing, but if I am tardy more than once..I'm done and have to appeal at the end of the semester. I ended up in a ditch not once but twice risking my life to get to class, (and made it) out of FEAR of getting kicked from the program.
I have never seen a college that is open if it is snowing...if the college is closed, then nursing classes are closed (as BOTH fall under the State Department of Education). This is something you need to consider before you choose a college so far away (for example, if it is snowing where you are and not at the college).
So, I would leave in plenty of time to make sure I can get there and check the weather report the night before and again early morning.
Also, this is PRACTICE FOR WORK because you are EXPECTED and REQUIRED to attend work no matter HOW BAD the weather is.
3)A student requests a copy of a physical for a summer internship that she had to have for school/clinicals. The dean says "read the handbook", no copies. So that student pays another $70 for a physical.
Then she should have kept a copy...what if the school had lost her copy? Lesson learned.
By the way... I would also guarantee this is also rumor. You are LEGALLY entitled to ANY copy of ANYTHING in your student file.
Read your hand book...and please don't post that "it's in there"...I would prefer a link to the college because college handbooks are legal contracts and you are entitled to anything in your formal school file just like you are entitled to copies of your medical information.
4) A conflict between an instructor and the dean causes the dean to write the next two exams without lecturing on them...the entire class fails the first test. The scores stand and we lose more people. The instructor is "let go" before the next term.
Did this happen to your personally or just "someone you know". I never worry if the "entire class" fails the exam...just make sure you have the highest failing grade...because they are not going to flunk the entire class because that is going to affect their funding and ultimately, their accreditation.
As long as you are "in line" with your classmates on grades...then no worries.
Also, if ALL of the students are upset then ALL of the students need to collectively appeal the exam. Read your handbook...the DEAN IS NOT ultimately in charge.
I guess I am just at a loss. This accredited program is "the only" one with a 2 year degree offered within 150miles of where I live. I wonder to myself if ALL programs are just so vicious to it's students? I am disheartened and dreading the next 2 semesters, but if I quit, I am back to being a LPN and nothing more with lots of debt.

You can do this!

soon_2Bnurse · Aug 3, 2011

Babylady,

Every one of the examples is pure FIRST hand knowledge. I was there, I took the test along with the individual who failed it. I was there when he stayed in class pending a letter to the Dean of Academic affairs hoping for another chance. I also know he was in the top 10% because our grades are posted on our internet forums for the school.

I live in a rural area..as I stated in the original post. Options for education are limited and this school is "the only" 2 year degree program within 150 miles. The problem being, I live in the mountains the college is 70 miles drive away, so 140 both ways. This isn't rumor, it's fact and I wrecked twice getting there.

The instructor is not rumor either, I have become friends with said instructor and speak with her often.

The handbook states no copies, so yes a situation arose (it was me) where I had an opportunity to get an internship. The physical was done last Sept. when I had no idea how things went in school and didn't consider keeping a copy. (I take some responsibility for that), but law or no law, they said NO to the copy.

Honestly, this wasn't to bash the school as much as to "understand" the rationale of an accredited college making every single step of the process to your degree difficult and fearful. I posted to get input from others if this is the "norm" for nursing programs. There are no "rumors" or exaggeration within this post, just sadness that in my heart, I know it doesn't "have" to be this way, but it is. I dread the next 2 semesters, am scared of failing and the only resource I have is the other 30 students that are as scared as me. The faculty doesn't care at all.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Aug 3, 2011

Babylady,
Every one of the examples is pure FIRST hand knowledge. I was there, I took the test along with the individual who failed it. I was there when he stayed in class pending a letter to the Dean of Academic affairs hoping for another chance. I also know he was in the top 10% because our grades are posted on our internet forums for the school.
Posting public grades with a name is illegal in every state that I know of. You have the right to privacy in your education and while they can post grades with no identifying information (such as a name), they cannot even do it with a student ID # if that student ID # is published somewhere else such as a student directory.
If your school is doing this, then you need to report that to the Board of Education in your state.
Was that the last test of the semester? Then how do they know he couldn't pull it up? I have never heard of anyone "failing" until the semester is over and grades are formally posted, unless they exceeded failing clinical days.
Also, I find it WEIRD that he would immediately fail a test and then IMMEDIATELY write the Dean of Academic Affairs? Most colleges that I know would require you to go through the teacher, THEN the Director of the department, THEN the Dean of the program, THEN the Dean of the college.
Souds like your friend didn't read the grievance procedure in the handbook...every college has one. You can't go through that channel in an hour.
I live in a rural area..as I stated in the original post. Options for education are limited and this school is "the only" 2 year degree program within 150 miles. The problem being, I live in the mountains the college is 70 miles drive away, so 140 both ways. This isn't rumor, it's fact and I wrecked twice getting there.
I live in an equally rural area that doesn't even have the budget to salt the roads for half the winter and I also don't have a 4-wheel drive. I have NEVER come close to wrecking even in the worst of snow/ice storms. You have to go slow, you have to make sure you give yourself enough time and if you cannot afford snow tires then you need to get something cheap such as chains on the tires.
If you have wrecked TWICE, then seriously...you are trying to rush. Has 100% of the class wrecked?
Options for education are also not limited. If you knew the school was that bad you could have went to a state 4-year college and lived on campus and stayed in the dorms..there are thousands of students that do this every year. Financial aid pays for it including meal plans.
The instructor is not rumor either, I have become friends with said instructor and speak with her often.
The handbook states no copies, so yes a situation arose (it was me) where I had an opportunity to get an internship. The physical was done last Sept. when I had no idea how things went in school and didn't consider keeping a copy. (I take some responsibility for that), but law or no law, they said NO to the copy.
...and that is what I am trying to tell you. They can't do that...handbook or no handbook. Just for future reference, if your school is that bad, you keep a copy of everything that you turn in because if you lost it, you would have had to go back to your physician to fill out another and I would highly suspect they wouldn't do it for free. They can lose your CPR card copy, etc. Same with a new employer...keep copies of everything.
Honestly, this wasn't to bash the school as much as to "understand" the rationale of an accredited college making every single step of the process to your degree difficult and fearful. I posted to get input from others if this is the "norm" for nursing programs. There are no "rumors" or exaggeration within this post, just sadness that in my heart, I know it doesn't "have" to be this way, but it is. I dread the next 2 semesters, am scared of failing and the only resource I have is the other 30 students that are as scared as me. The faculty doesn't care at all.

I'll be honest, I am not a fan of nursing instructors. 80% of them have chips on their shoulder and it is only in the BSN program that I am currently in that I actually realized that there was a such thing such as a quality instructor.

So trust me, I feel your pain, however, you have to find a way to work through it because being worried about it, scared about it, upset about it, isn't going to fix it. You have to focus on what you have control over and let go of what you don't.

soon_2Bnurse · Aug 3, 2011

Babylady,

Thank you for your honest replies. I wish it was as simple as living on campus. The campus isn't a live-in campus nor am I able to do that. I am an adult, put my husband through college to get his masters, we have 3 children, one already graduated from college and 2 in college. I work weekends in a penal facility as a lpn to make ends meet. Nothing is easy EVER, but I do try. This is my "one shot". I have been married a very long time (25 years) so if I fail, then I can't do it again.

You are correct on the grades of the man I spoke of...his name was not posted, but he was a friend and the "curve" was posted online.

Living where I do, I wish I could say driving wasn't a challenge. I made the decision to commit to college, so I drive it. The college is so far away that the weather is different "there" than here. They have a policy that if you miss one day or 2 tardies, you can go in for grade appeal. The 2nd absence automatically is an "F". Btw, the test he took on electrolytes was the only test over that material and it counted in "lab". With a total available points of 42 and him losing 8 of those with 2 points on the CCE's lost, it was mathematically impossible to pass the lab portion. He was an EMT and paramedic..its a real shame.

I guess what I am getting at is that it just shouldn't be this cruel. There really should be some understanding. I don't mean taking advantage but seriously having empathy. What point is being a nurse if you have no regard for other people.