Why aren't more nurses and nursing facilities unionized?

eagle78 · May 15, 2011

various items here:In response to one comment above: it is just flat false that unionization makes it impossible to get rid of bad nurses. I am chief steward at my hospital, which means I get involved in almost all the discipline stuff that comes up here. Nurses do get fired regularly when they screw up badly. All a manager has to do if a nurse really needs to go is: let them know how they aren't measuring up and document that they have done so, let them know what they have to do to improve, and document that, then document how they have failed to improve. Just the kind of due process anyone would want. Any manager who says "I can't fire a bad nurse 'because of the union'" is really saying that they are too lazy to do their own job properly. They simply have to go through the sort of steps and the sort of documentation that all of us do every day in the course of our patient care. If they are too lazy to do that - and a lot of managers are - that's not the fault of the union.

I agree with this post, unions do not prevent a company from getting rid of employees, they just assure that the due diligence is served. Documentation has to be kept in order to get it done, so a manager has to be diligent. I worked for AT&T, started as top craft and ended my career with them as a technical support manager. I have seen both sides of the fence. Unions are good for employees because the give them a voice and keep them from being "at will" employees.

ddunnrn · May 15, 2011

Healtchcare is mostly for-profit in this country, and the less the workforce is able to fight back for their rights, the more profit is made. Simple as that. Personally I don't understand why anyone who has the "calling" for nursing isn't unionized, and doesn't fully support Unversal Healthcare. We are soooo far behind most other industrialized countries in the world, and falling further behind every day.

Zombi RN · May 16, 2011

To the OP: Hospitals and facilities spend big $$$ to prevent unions from forming.

True. My facility has meetings with clinical directors, team manager RNs, etc very, very often with the goal of preventing employees from wanting to unionize. If a nurse tries to start a union, they will find a way to fire that individual. It is a very strong anti-union stance.

For reference, I live in Oklahoma, which has Right To Work laws. My husband and I plan to move to a state where we can be unionized once we are done with school and financially capable.

lindarn · May 17, 2011

Mainly because hospitals and nursing homes are scared to death of losing control over their slaves, oops- employees. The only weapon that they have is fear, and threats. Unfortunaley, too many nurses are "Martyr Marys", and put up with this without protest. And too many indivuduals enter/are attracted to, nursing as a career. They want to save the world, and they don't care what they have to put up with to do it.

Employment without representation is slavery!

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Somewhere in the PACNW

WIN007 · Jun 7, 2011

Of course the hospitals pay big money to keep the unions out. All industries do.they don't want to pay for lower patient ratios or higher pay for the employees.

As for union "greed", and maybe I'm missing something as I have never been in a union, but I can't see how it's advantageous to the union to put a company and it's employees (members) out of business. On the news for example, for the past 15 years, unions, where they exist at all, have made concession after concession. I never see the corporate management do the same. It's always the workers losing ground.

WIN007 · Jun 7, 2011

I remember at my former hospital (the nursing unions have been trying to get into a decidedly 'red' state) and I know a LOT of the nurses hated many of the appalling conditions, most of all the patient ratios, but some management brownnoser ratted it out and before you knew it there were flyers and letters from the VP circulating and all that with teh same stuff, you wouldn't be able to talk to management(er, why not) and the typical anti-union stuff.

I'm off the floor now; the only thing I miss is the patients. thank God I don't have to do those loads anymore but I still feel really sorry for the girls (and guys) that are stuck there.

nicurn001 · Jun 15, 2011

Its interesting that even now when unionization of employees is at such a low level antiunionist still blame unions for all the ills of the economy . Yet while the majority of employers maintain non union businesses , why is it that they and their business practices are not blamed for the poor state of the economy .

happyhippie · Jul 4, 2011

Why Aren't More Nurses Organized ? Hmm, well as of July 1, 2011, the California Nurses Association/Nation Nurses Union has 165,000 members in multiple states; they push for safe staffing, one-payor insurance and pay/pensions for Nurses. I live in Texas and they have organized 7 HCA hospitals, and are making a major diffence in nurse working conditiond, patient safety and the roles of nurses as professionals. I am a member even though my nursing position is outside a hospital. As a formed masters-trained hospital administrator, I can tell you that the front office at most facilities is still using 1950-ish thinking and making money/profit the sole motivator, although they will never admit this in public. Who I really feel sorry for are the Nurses who I have heard state that nursing unions are unprofessional, not needed and are out for your money. Of course if the nurses union got them lower patient ratios and higer pay/benefits I am sure they wouldn't refuse these. Folks, unions only can exist when management isn't doing their job. Do I personally believe in unions ? Not the point...I believe you run a facility that provides excellent care through staff that have time to render that care and I guarantee the bottom line will take care of itself.

royhanosn · Jul 4, 2011

unions are for people that cant fight for themselves. One way, is work to rule. Do the basics only!

Unions are always trying to get the pie in sky! But never do! If you have good management, with open door policy

your doing well. Instead of going for more pay, which pushes you into a different tax bracket, try better fringe benefits.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jul 5, 2011

Please explain to me why aren't more/all nurses, working in hospitals or nursing facilites unionized? Is it a money issue or potential patient endangerment?

Because we may not see a need to unionize or we may not want to deal with some of the problems that unionization brings with it.

Much like those who proselytize, unless they can offer an improvement in the recipient's life/situation, it rarely is accepted. If the situation is acceptable to begin with, there is no reason to change.

lindarn · Jul 5, 2011

I beg to differ with you.

The National Nurse United has unionized in parts of the country where working conditions were deporable and unsafe. They had NO say in anything, and working conditions, pay, benefits, were at the hospitals' whim.

I am glad that you believe that you have no need for a union. I hope that at managements whim, a change in hospital ownership, things don't change radically.

Reality is, most nurses have no union representation, they are miserable, nursing satisfaction is at an all time low, workplace staffing is horribly unsafe, and is a danger to you license and the patients in their care. If any profession needs a union, it is nursing.

If you don't feel the need to unionize, you can join the National Nurse United, and support other nurses in the country who do need union representation.

The National Nurses United is working towards, better staffing, staffing ratios, pensions that a nurse can actually retire on, workplace protection, etc. These are all worthwhile goals, that we should ALL SUPPORT!

The biggest problem with nurses is they do not stick together. It is me, myself, and I. The hell with everyone else. Doctors do not practice like that, neither do PTs, OTs, etc. They see themselves as ONE! What hurts one, hurts everyone.

That is why doctors have so much clout, as do PTs, and OTs.

There is good and bad in union and non union facilities. I don't buy your sweeping generalization of union hospitals and nurses. Unionized hospitals have better patient outcomes because they are nurses are more satisfied with their jobs, and have union protection to speak up against unsafe working conditions. Non union nurses have no such protection. They are shown the door in a minute.

So if you are happy, and believe that you can speak up against insafe working conditions, can speak up against management, well I am happy for you. Unfortunately, tha vast majority of nurses don't have that situation, and I pray that your work situation doesn't change radically, or you will be in for a big surprise.

JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Someplace in the PACNW

nicurn001 · Jul 5, 2011

Whilst a nurse in a non union facility may have good management , they are living in a I'm alright Jack world ie. I've got good management so I will go with the flow , unfortunately management can suddenly go off in a new uncomfortable direction , you are then in the position of facing death by a thousand cuts .What new policy or removal of benefit can you no longer tolerate and when do you decide to try to stop these changes , by going through that open door to discuss the problems these changes are causing you and your fellow nurses.After having discussed the problem with management and no changes occur , what will you do ?, there are only two choices a) accept changes as you can't do anything about it or b) look for a new employer .

As I 've asked on previous occassions of nurse who do not feel the need to unionize what effective course of action can you advise nurses to take , to change an intransigent employers bad changes to policies and terms of employment other than accept the changes or resign , which is what anti unionist advise usually boils down to .