So, about two weeks ago I had a very unpleasant interaction with my patients primary provider. I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there. This is in front of about 15 people. According to him, I should not even talk when he is in with a patient. In the middle of his rant. I interrupted him and frankly said, " There is no reason for you to be so disrespectful towards me, and if there is anything else you need to let me know, feel free once you decide to behave like a professional." and left. I was later pulled aside by my charge (who witnessed the entire thing) and told that it was unprofessional for me to "point" and raise my voice in front of everyone.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
dudette10, I have already expressed what I have to say on this topic. It is fine with me if you interpret what I have said in whatever way you wish to, and it is fine with me if you disagree with me.
hmm, if he weren't yelling, the OP wouldn't have had to RAISE their voice, it would seem...
I'm not even sure that the doctor's anger was inappropriate or inappropriately expressed. All we have is the OP's side of the story. It could be that the doctor didn't even raise his voice -- just took a firm tone with her, which she interpreted as "yelling." I wouldn't have believed this a few years ago, but it seems that a large number of new entrants into the work force seem to interpret ANY communication that they don't like as "yelling." I've seen too many interactions where someone took a firm tone with the newbie (because they just weren't getting the seriousness of the message) and the newbie went running off complaining that they were "yelled at" when no actual yelling -- or inappropriate communication of any kind -- occurred.
Ruby, this is why i am surprised that you have taken this attitude on this thread....
I've read the whole thread. I've read the original post.
I am not entirely sure that the physician did not have a legitimate grievance BEFORE you raised your voice and pointed your finger. I AM entirely sure he did AFTER.
Please don't feel sorry for ME. No one has berated me at work (as opposed to on AN) for decades. Perhaps because I not only have respect for myself, but also for my colleagues.
the bottom line here, is that the charge could have averted the whole scene by taking the doc aside.... instead, she/he let it run, and then criticized a new nurse for the way she handled it. when he/she should have been setting an example.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
Ruby, this is why i am surprised that you have taken this attitude on this thread....
I'm not sure I understand. You're surprised at the stand I've taken BECAUSE I read the whole thread?
Or because my colleagues and I respect each other and I have not been berated by them for decades?
We only know one side of the story; the side told by the OP. I don't know the physician's side, the patient's side or the charge nurse's side. As I charge nurse, I would stand up for a colleague who is being unfairly berated. I HAVE done so. Someone who is escalating the situation, however, as the OP did by raising her voice and pointing her finger, is NOT someone I would stand up for. Instead, I would take the person aside and in PRIVATE tell them that I thought they handled the situation inappropriately.
As a long time preceptor, I've seen many such interactions between newbies and physicians. Sometimes the physician is someone with a well known attitude, and I've taken them aside to suggest that they tone it down a bit. But usually it's the newbie who has never held a professional position before and needs some work on workplace communication. If I'm reading correctly, the OP is new. Not only that, but her charge nurse -- who was there -- told her that she'd handled the situation poorly. I wasn't there, but I'm guessing that charge nurse had a point.
If I stood up for a new nurse who was raising her voice and pointing her finger, I'd be condoning that behavior. There are very few instances in which that is appropriate even a little bit.
Now the time the physician backhanded the nurse across the face with a metal chart, I raised MY voice and may have even pointed my finger. Right before I took the nurse to the ER and called the supervisor about the physician. The time the physician threw dirty sharps at a nurse, and the nurse threatened to "be waiting at your car when you get off work tonight", I stood up for the nurse right up until the threat was made. At that point, I could no longer condone his behavior, even though I may have understood it and even secretly applauded it.
I'll stand up for a colleague who is behaving professionally any time. But I cannot condone finger pointing and voice raising.
You don't have to tolerate being disrespected! If he had an issue with your behavior then he should have addressed you in a professional manner. He invited you to raise your voice at him, when he decided to scold and raise his voice at you! Furthermore, I see nothing wrong with you answering a patient initiated question while the MD is in the room! Do you really have to wait until the Royal King of Medicine is done before you're allowed to answer a simple discharge question? Next time he comes on the floor maybe all the peasant nurses should stand at attention and salute him (silently of course)............
I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
Did i do anything wrong here?
What it sounds like you and the patient might have done was change the subject on him. He wanted to talk about the care plan and his perception of it was that you and the patient wanted to talk about something else.
You said the question was "nothing medical related." Changing the subject can be interpreted as disrespectful.
I sometimes get upset when I want to talk about something and I think someone is hijacking the conversation.
I can also understand what you're saying as far as that when someone asks a question, it's natural to answer it. I don't know what the question was so I can't really say if he had a right to be offended or not.
I notice though, that sometimes, even if you offer up an apology to people like this, it just doesn't make any difference.
Susie, I think this has to do with younger vs older. I don't think you realized that kadeemb wasn't calling the OP a girl. I"m not sure if you're much older or maybe from a different culture outside of the US but girl bye is so coming. It basically means or another way of saying oh puhleeze (please) for example and that was very unfair of you to approach kadeemb like that without really knowing the situation. Chill out next time please and yes that is slang for relax.
Kadeemb, She obviously does not know the term " girl bye" lol, maybe she's old or not from the american culture and doesn't understand some of our terms so therefore thinks we're being disrespectful, I wouldn't even trip on her.
Even if the OP did do something wrong initially, the doc should not have yelled at her publicly--now that's unprofessional. I'm sure the patient wasn't listening to a word the doc said because the patient was probably anxious about moving. The OP's response to the patient could not have taken more than a few seconds. The doc needs to get off his high horse. If the doctor has a problem with the OP, he needs to address her in private. Simply saying, "I would really appreciate it if you would redirect the patient's attention to the care plan in the future," would go a lot farther than acting like a two year old.
I'm disappointed that so many nurses here are supporting his Special Snowflake-ness, completely ignoring his unjustified raging in front of so many people.
I agree 100%. I respect the Drs, but I don't tolerate the yelling and insulting behavior. In fact, I had one literally rush toward me, yelling that I didn't know where my pt's family was (I work in PACU, my pt had just arrived, I was performing my initial assessment as the Dr came in, residents in tow, yelling at me)....so....I raised my voice in an assertive manner, put my hand out in front of me, palm down, directly toward him, and told him "Sir, my patient just got here, I do not know where the family is, and right now I'm going to finish my assessment. Go look in the waiting room if you want to find them. If you want to call them, you have their number."
I received no reprimand, I was not further disrespected by the Dr, and he greets me with a grin and a Hello.
Specializes in Infection Prevention, Public Health.
Well, it could go down in a few different ways
Doctor to Patient: We are going to transfer you to Shady Elms Nursing Home later today Mr. Smith. It is really crucial that we get you into a therapeutic range on your Coumadin......
Patient: Hey Nurse! What to hell happened to my other pack of cigarettes? All I got left is mentholated and those make me gag.
Nurse: I hate menthols too! The last time I smoked menthols, I was at that dive bar down on Hamilton Street. Oh crap, what's it called?
Patient: The Hanky Panky. God, I'm there all the time. I thought I knew your face from somewhere.
Nurse: Well I got so sick there after smoking menthols last week that I was puking in the parking lot.
Doctor: [ storms out of the room in great haste. He is purple with rage]
Or this scenario:
Doctor to Patient: We're going to be transferring you to Shady Elms Nursing Home later today. It's going to be important....
Patient: Hey Nurse, Ain't no way in hell I'm going to Shady Elms. I was there 2 years ago and that place is a disgusting dump. Tell Dr. Moron here that he take Shady Elms and shove it. I bet you wouldn't send a dog there, right?
Nurse: Actually, Shady Elms was completely renovated last year and all the rooms are private now. And we always hear great reports from patients about the nursing care there.
Patient: A private room? Maybe I'll go there a few days and see if I like it.
Doctor: [ Storms out of the room in great haste. He is purple with rage.]
Next time he comes on the floor maybe all the peasant nurses should stand at attention and salute him (silently of course)............
morte, LPN, LVN
7,015 Posts
LOL, have to go with dudette...