Why the high drop out rate of nursing students?

[newhere_noname]

Here is my question for educators.

I'm wondering how to decrease the drop out rate in nursing schools but I first need to know what the students reasons are for dropping out.

My thought is that some students apply because they want to be a nurse but like most of the general public don't know exactly what a nurse does besides follow MD orders, administer medications and make patients comfortable. They are surprised when they find out how much more is involved including the extra heavy load of coursework/study time and figured it was more then they bargained for and leave. Am I way off base here or is there a percentage of student's that fit this category?

What are the more common reasons for student leaving school?

What is the drop out rate at your school?

Thanks, Karen

[Suninmyheart]

Some may not appreciate this reply but, well...

I think a big part of the problem is that nursing is not perceived as a career for the "best and the brightest." In general (there are plenty of exceptions), the best and the brightest major in science, engineering, etc. So that leaves nursing with a lot of average or below average students who really can't hack it.

I actually think nursing curriculum should be significantly more difficult. Of course, that would turn off a ton of people in the short run but in the long term we could potentially (along with other actions that are also pie-in-the-sky thinking but I can wish anyway) begin attracting more of the "best and the brightest" and improve the standard of nursing knowledge for the entire profession.

I tend to agree. I also have always felt that practicing as an RN should be a 4 year degree minimum. I have an ADN.

[Suninmyheart]

I remember there was always some element of feeling like I was at the mercy of instructors as to whether I was going to pass or fail. I could have studied enormously and then gone in and wondered where in the heck those test questions came from. Plus teachers have a lot of freedom and getting to know their style etc is half the battle.

Here's a good story:

My last semester in school we had a teacher who was notorious for being very very difficult. Sure enough his questions seemed to be ICU level critical thinking and not congruent with his lectures. I was barely ok, getting a low B, but many students were on the verge of failing who had A's and B'a all through school. I finally spoke up in class several weeks before finals. I asked him outright why there was such a discrepancy between his lectures and his exams and also such a discrepancy between his material/tests and the other instructors of the same class. He basically revealed that his standards were higher then other teachers. I argued that that is wonderful but it appears the classes we participated in up to this class did not prepare us to meet his expectations and as a result people are failing. I stated that most of us aren't the proverbial whiney blame it on the teacher type students and we have worked very hard to get to this point. Failing means that we lose tens of thousands of dollars in lost income and in tuition cost to retake the class and all because one instructors expectations aren't in synch with the the rest of the instructors. Not very "fair" to us students who have successfully come a long way so far. I took this argument to the dean and requested I be allowed to take the other instructors final. The dean said she had never, in her entire 30 year history of teaching heard of a student willing to blindly take another instructors final. She then demanded all 3 instructors get together and write the same final with each question being approved by all. For the first time in that class the exam actually reflected the material we covered and I truly felt my grade reflected what I put into it. My last exam in nursing school was a 98%.

[Farmer Jane]

Students get so stressed out in school that they are reduced to tears.

You see nothing wrong with that??

No, I really don't. My brother is a bio/micro major and I've heard a lot of swearing and seen a lot of kicking (that would be the male version of crying). A degree worth having SHOULD be hard enough to be frustrating. Sorry, but I don't think we should dumb down a program so people don't get frustrated. In fact, I think most programs should be more difficult and we should expect students to overcome frustration. Frustration is not, in and of itself, a bad thing. To be perfectly honest I think part of the problem is that nursing is seen as so easy and low-level that students actually expect to not be frustrated. Do other science majors have that expectation?

[Farmer Jane]

One more thought on crying: I don't think crying is any more significant than screaming, yelling, or hitting a punching bag. It's simply a response to emotion, and people express emotions in many different ways. Some people cry at the drop of a hat.

[KarynicaRN]

i have had students drop out of nurse aide classes because they didn't do the research on exactly what a cna does. many reasons why people quit class is; having a 2 month old at home that is very sick, finding out that being a cna or nurse was not for them. i have seen so many students come into class and when i ask them if they know what a cna does? nope. they haven't a clue.

when i was in nursing school we lost about 10 students the first semester because the school wanted to "weed" out the bad one's. don't know if that is true or not, but unless one really wants to become a nurse and knows what nurses really do, i don't know why they take the test and take up a spot that someone else could have had who really understands what nursing is all about and really wants to give it their all.

hope this makes some sense.

[asoonernurse]

I concur, Karynica. We lost a great many in my LVN program when they found out that much of an LVNs life revolves around bowel movements and projectile vomiting!

Too many of the young girls (although I make no distinction between sexes) came into our class with an image of nursing they garnered from ER or Grey's Anatomy.

Our instructor decided that we should work as CNAs for the first week of our clinicals. When we got back into the classroom the following week, 7 girls had dropped out (in a class of 28).

Regards,

Michael

[asoonernurse]

I could have studied enormously and then gone in and wondered where in the heck those test questions came from. Plus teachers have a lot of freedom and getting to know their style etc is half the battle.

Oh, how we feel your pain, dear. :chuckle

Regards,

Michael

[Suninmyheart]

Oh, how we feel your pain, dear. :chuckle

Regards,

Michael

I must say I did not realize it was the educators forum and, gulp, I do not expect amusement or sympathy for I am outnumbered.

Graciously, Sun :bow:

[jjjoy, LPN]

NoA degree worth having SHOULD be hard enough to be frustrating. Sorry, but I don't think we should dumb down a program so people don't get frustrated.

I agree. My frustration with nursing education was that oftentimes the test, similar to unitek's experience, did NOT reflect what had been presented in lecture or as it was covered in text or that was in any way practiced for or coached for ahead of time. In so many nursing classes, the objectives of the course and expectations of the instructors was unclear, leaving the students floundering over what to focus on. And the near exclusivity use of NCLEX style testing means that concrete facts (lab values, pathophys, medication interactions, etc) are NOT tested on. Those things ARE important to know and students are expected to know them in clinicals, yet they often aren't tested directly on then.

Meanwhile, once a basic level of understanding is acheived, reviewing all of the lectures and required readings do NOT help students perform better on the tests. Spending more time reviewing CONTENT and gaining a better understanding of it will NOT improve a person's performance on NCLEX-style questions. Only practicing NCLEX style questions do that. Understandably, nursing educators don't want to teach to the test, so they teach content. But then students are broadsided by tests that DON'T test for content and comprehension.

Seriously, if you have a student with decent study skills and ability to learn, what's the best way for them to improve their test scores? Get a NCLEX review and learn how to "read" the questions and then practice NCLEX test questions. That will get them a lot further than spending more time with the content (pathophys, pharm, etc) trying to understand it more.

If in-depth comprehension of content really isn't that important... if it's the ability to USE information that's presented to you... then why not TEACH that way as well? Why not TEACH the students how to process information instead of lecturing lists of symptoms, nursing actions, pathophys, treatments, potential complications, and then tossing them a test that comes at all that information from a totally different angle?

I'm not saying all educators are NOT teaching valuable information. In fact, it seems that many instructors are restricted in their choices of how and what to teach. It seemed like our instructors had to cover a minimum amount of text book content, and given how much text book content there was, that pretty much amounted to a superfast rehash of the text with no time for questions or to discuss case studies, prioritization, clinical scenarios, etc.

So this is a vent not about instructors or teaching, but more about what seems like an overcompensating shift to NCLEX style testing *at the expense of* traditional testing techniques.

[SarasotaRN2b]

I think a good suggestion is having a prerequisite of having a CNA and working as an aide for a little while. At the very least, they should see about shadowing a nurse. While our nursing school doesn't require this, the radiology program at our school does require a shadowing experience.

It'll take the stars out of their eyes and those that really want to consider this career will pursue it.

Kris

[BlueRidgeHomeRN]

one more thought on crying: i don't think crying is any more significant than screaming, yelling, or hitting a punching bag. it's simply a response to emotion, and people express emotions in many different ways. some people cry at the drop of a hat.

besides, you will cry in nursing, at least once in awhile......might as well get used to it!!:redbeathe

[sistasoul]

Hello all,

I just graduated from a 2 year ADN program and I think that it really depends on the instructor. Some instructors do not require detailed clinical paperwork which frees up time for study. I had a clinical instructor my last semester who would constantly hand me back clinical paperwork to redo. One care plan I had to redo 4 times. Once it was handed back to me because I had failed to put the times to call for a community resource. This resource had the website and phone numbers to call. I had always received good to excellent on my clinical paerwork before from all other instructors. The worst part was I had asked a woman in my clinical group to take a look at her care plan and all she had for a community resource was to contact your local AHA association. I almost failed my exams because of all the redoing of clinical paperwork that I would previously spend 30-35 hrs a week to do.

I also think that ADN programs should be required to go through the summer. There is way too much information to cram into 2 years.