I've been in two different hospitals in both my first and second semesters and come up against some ROUGH nurses who would rather do everything themselves than let me touch a thing.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that they are BUSY, they have a TO-DO list, they have patients that NEED meds, help, EVERYTHING. But, I'm here to help. I'm wearing these bright purple scrubs not because I like the color, but because I want to learn, I NEED to learn. I will take them to the bathroom, I will bathe them, I will take their vitals, just PLEASE let me.
When I say 80% of the nurses I've followed have done NOTHING with me I am not exaggerating. Why is this? Last week the nurse I was following wouldn't even let me take vitals, VITALS!! I am in my second semester of nursing school, I think I can handle that.
Anyway, I wanted to know whats up with that! I recognize that they are busy. I also recognize the few nurses that have taken me under their wing and shown me SO MUCH. I'm thankful for that, and grateful.
I discovered that some of my Hospice patients at the facility have been assigned to students. I took the instructor aside last week, and was rather horrified to learn that these patients had not been identified to her as Hospice.
I pointed out to her that while learning about Hospice as a student could be very informative, at this point in their studies, they needed a more acute care, we have x test result, we need to do y intervention experience. As we don't do labs or tests on our patients, but rather go by symptoms and our knowledge of how different diseases "act", we use a different set of critical thinking skills, which students at that point just don't have yet.
It was a good conversation, and she agreed with what the students needed. I also discovered that the CI doesn't stay right there with the group, like they did when I was in school, but that's a different conversation. She said she would check patient status before assigning students (oh, for the days of physical charts that had big ol' Hospice stickers on the front lol. It tends to get buried in the EMR).
I'm not against students, I actually love to teach, but they do need patients that will provide the kind of experience they need for the level they are at.
We used to love students at my old hospital. They were either from the CC or state run Vo-Tech. When admin started allowing the 25k for an LPN schools into the facility our mindsets had to change. We were suddenly saddled with sub standard students with severe language barriers and serious knowledge gaps. It wasn't personal but you weren't touching my patients because I simply don't trust you. You have the BP cuff on upside down ? Yes you may stand in the corner and watch but thats it.
"Seasoned" nurses will treat new grads and students with outright disrespect and degrade them for not knowing how to perform tasks while at the same time refusing to educate the new grads/students those same tasks.
Thank you. I was avoiding making a comment, but I truly appreciate this statement.
It is quite frustrating to see the mistreatment of nurses, both old and new. I completely understand, from the bottom of my heart, how students can be a burden. I truly do. With so many hospitals being short staffed, nurses working with no CNAs, ratios of 1:6-7-8, 1:3-4 in the ICU. It is almost naive to not expect these nurses to feel burdened by students.
However, when you are this student, and there are 8 students in your clinical group with only one instructor, you have to assume that they cannot be with all 8 of you at once. You're lucky if you even get 45 minutes with them. So, what do you do for the rest of your 7 hours there?
I understand that the students are in the way, and that they might me more useful to you if they do the non-nursey things (get pt water, etc.). But when are they given the opportunity to truly learn and practice skills other than at lab?
It's sad because once these same students get hired as new grads, (some) experienced nurses will then complain about their lack of skill knowledge and a steep learning curve. But as we all know, reading about something isn't enough. Practicing a skill in lab isn't the same as it is with a real person, either.
I am not saying that we should expect nurses to do so much extra work. I just wish that the circumstances were a bit more ideal for nurses and students to be able to work together.
In a perfect world, nurses would have perfect ratios and ample time to teach the students. Maybe even get a % raise for each day they are with a student. But sadly this just isn't the case. I truly do understand both sides, but it is a lose-lose situation.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with my comments. I sincerely appreciate all of my fellow nurses and the work that they do. Nurses are so under-appreciated and it is truly devastating.
I get that you're paying a lot of money for school...but that should mean that your expectation is that the school be properly teaching you. Floor nurses are not being paid to teach you. When I was in school, our assigned pts' RNs were there as a resource. We could ask them questions; if willing, they could supervise skills with instructor approval; sometimes they would offer to show us things. But our instructor was the one who was expected to teach us -- again, with the exception of internship preceptors, who volunteered.
Exactly, and that was my experience as a student (and as a clinical instructor), also. OP, you may be paying a lot of money for school, but the hospitals in which you do your clinical experiences aren't getting paid any of that money (hospitals take students out of "the goodness of their hearts," to be "good citizens" in healthcare), and, Lord knows, the individual RN certainly isn't. Your school is responsible for teaching you. I love students, I love teaching, but I hate having students dropped off with the assumption that the staff nurses are going to do the instructor's job for her/him all day. I'm surprised more hospitals don't formally object and refuse to allow those schools to return.
In addition, schools that use that approach are, IMO, neglecting their responsibility to ensure the quality of the education the students are receiving. Invariably, when I've taught clinical in the past, on any unit in any facility, there were always a few nurses whom I needed to keep the students away from because they were giving bad information and teaching bad practice.
I didn't learn a gosh darn thing by following the nurse around when I was in clinicals, except for what I needed to do to keep my teachers off my back and to look busy. I was a straight A student, but I found I could learn a heck of a lot more by not watching the nurse, but by reading charts and looking up stuff I didn't understand. I found it fascinating really and I always looked busy. I would ask the nurse about every hour or two if I could do anything for her. She would usually squint at me and walk right past me like I didn't exist. Awesome! Or give me a CNA task which was fine then go sit back down. Don't worry you will learn everything you need to know when you get into your specialty. I never to this day have shoved an NG tube down someone's throat or have had the pleasure of troubleshooting a rectal tube.
YES Aggie!! I feel the same. I am one final away from being half way though this program and I have skills. I come in knowing what I can do, relaying that to my nurse for the day and am typically left to dry. The two (out of six) great clinical experiences this semester blew me away. SO THIS IS WHAT BEING WANTED FEELS LIKE. And, the two that taught me were relatively new nurses.... its almost as if them remembered the nursing school struggle... **hmmmm. :)
Glad to know I'm not crazy in thinking its a bit rough out there. I hope that when I'm a nurse I will be wiling to help the students. Some of the posters on here have said I won't... but just sit back and watch!
Thanks agaain Aggie- I really appreciated your post.
So you picked the one poster who agrees with you to thank, (this poster also a student) and ignore/criticize the ACTUAL NURSES who tried to explain why you are encountering these situations during clinical.
Please listen to the experienced nurses who took the time to offer their wisdom.
We all remember being students. It is just for a lot of us, we worked with our clinical instructor rather than put the already overworked floor nurses in the position of having to teach you while your school rakes in your "lots of money" and pawns off the work.
OCRN3- it's a shame you've encountered students like that. I am not one of those students. I will (and have) done anything that is asked of me. I understand that many students may feel that sense of entitlement, but coming from this 30 y/o Navy veteran- I've dealt with my fair share of suck already and you won't be getting that entitled attitude from me.
I've only been on two floors in two hospitals with two different groups of nursing students- but we've all been kind. I can't imagine nursing students being rude, and my apologies if you have experienced that.
Thanks for the blunt end of the sword- I think a few have already explained it above as well.
Open lines of communication would do A LOT. Instead of ignoring me, the nurse could simply communicate why I can't be of help, why I'm in the way, how I can't be of use, etc.
If my meager hands can't be of help, how about a little communication. I don't think thats too much to ask.
I was working my way through the thread, but thank you for your noticing and being so quick of your feet!
I have not been ignoring the ACTUAL NURSES. I've been studying for finals all weekend and this is my first chance to get online- forgive me if I am drawn to the POSITIVITY in these threads.
Anyway, ACTUAL Nurse Leigh, I'm sure you remember being a student, I sure hope so. As I wrote in reply to an ACTUAL NURSE, I think the lines of communication need to be opened up so I understand why I a being ignored. I am literally willing to do anything, and I have made that abundantly clear- JUST ASK!
Anyway, I'll continue to rummage around through these posts, with your approval of course, and respond to the correct ones.
Jensmom7, BSN, RN
1,907 Posts
I have an even different take on this.
I discovered that some of my Hospice patients at the facility have been assigned to students. I took the instructor aside last week, and was rather horrified to learn that these patients had not been identified to her as Hospice.
I pointed out to her that while learning about Hospice as a student could be very informative, at this point in their studies, they needed a more acute care, we have x test result, we need to do y intervention experience. As we don't do labs or tests on our patients, but rather go by symptoms and our knowledge of how different diseases "act", we use a different set of critical thinking skills, which students at that point just don't have yet.
It was a good conversation, and she agreed with what the students needed. I also discovered that the CI doesn't stay right there with the group, like they did when I was in school, but that's a different conversation. She said she would check patient status before assigning students (oh, for the days of physical charts that had big ol' Hospice stickers on the front lol. It tends to get buried in the EMR).
I'm not against students, I actually love to teach, but they do need patients that will provide the kind of experience they need for the level they are at.