Members in the community forum are discussing the phenomenon of dying patients reaching up or exhibiting behaviors that may suggest communication with deceased loved ones. Some users attribute this to biological processes, while others believe it may have spiritual significance. The discussion also touches on the importance of compassion and understanding towards dying patients, regardless of personal beliefs.
I've noticed that when it gets toward the end for people (not necessarily the VERY end, but maybe the last month or so when they have started really going downhill) they will hold their arms upward once in awhile and then let them fall at their sides.
I've seen this a lot. My father-in-law did it, too. He would have his eyes closed and raise his arms in the air as if he were reaching up.
No one answered my question. Why are schizophrenic visions biological but death visions spiritual? Where is the sense in that?
The point of the book "Final Gifts" is that "medicine" and family members ignore or write off as a dementia, a dying patient's last gestures or words. And we should be paying attention - caring for them. Not ignoring them. Whether you believe or not.
My co-workers and I were discussing this issue last week. One of them had a near-death experience several years ago where she was comatose and barely hanging on for several days. She swears that several of her deceased relatives were in the room with her telling her they would be happy to "have her home". She said her mother finally appeared in the room and announced that it was not her time. She thinks she woke up shortly after. I don't know what to make of these kinds of stories, but my friend is not normally a spiritual person. But when she tells the story, she gets tears in her eyes. I believe her, because I have heard dying patients talk to their dead loved ones. And they all seem to reach out, or up.
I would wager that "heaven" being commonly associated with 'up' has something to do with it. Lots of metabolic and chemical processes going on, a dying person's need to feel that there is something of an after life... lots of reasons. Interesting question, but I don't think anecdotal experiences (as many as there may be) prove that any such place exists.
Ridiculous. People in their last moments, many times coming out of unconsciousness only for a moment don't have the ability to think about having a need for something. They're literally dying. We have proven evidence of heaven being a place in Jesus Christ. Who died and was raised to show he was the way to heaven.
tencat said:
Makes you think, though. What purpose would it serve, biologically speaking, to see dead relatives? And why does pretty much every patient I've worked with in hospice see someone we can't see, regardless of their culture or religious beliefs? We can explain how it works, but we can't explain the why......I'm the ultimate agnostic, and I sure wonder what all that is about........I am not easily able to explain it away as purely chemical processes. What survival purpose do such experiences serve?
I find it interesting that few folks in this thread are actually answering the question asked, but instead arguing the religious symbolism involved.
It has been my experience that the raising of the arms, and subsequent flopping of them back down at the sides, exhibited by many who are approaching death has a direct relation to medication, specifically lorazepam. In patients I have seen, remove lorazepam from their schedule and the behavior goes away as well; put the medication back to the schedule and the behavior returns. I have heard many in the field actually describe this as "a typical sign of end-of-life", whereas I firmly believe and have witnessed that this very specific behavior is a side-effect of lorazepam.
Perhaps elsewhere we can argue for or against the notion that those approaching death are seeing loved-ones, or whether these are hallucinations, or whether something is real because we believe it or because we believe it we make it real, but as for the specific behavior that is being queried in this original post, I am convinced it is brought on by medication. Somewhere along the line this specific behavior became associated with an actual sign that someone is nearing death, whereas it is much more likely that because the patient is nearing death they are administered lorazepam to alleviate symptoms of agitation or restlessness, and this behavior manifests then and typically only then. I truly believe this is classic "association fallacy".
And I always thought it was "the higher the hair, the closer....:Maybe only people old enough to remember the beehive and sprayed hair can recall the image:)
Ridiculous. People in their last moments, many times coming out of unconsciousness only for a moment don't have the ability to think about having a need for something. They're literally dying. We have proven evidence of heaven being a place in Jesus Christ. Who died and was raised to show he was the way to heaven.
Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven.
No proselytizing here, please. It's obnoxious to people of other religions. Control thyself:)
It is okay to be a nonbeliever, but it is also okay to be a believer. I don't think anyone was really trying to offer proof as much as just their own point of view. For those with faith, that is all the proof they need, and for those who are not inclined toward religiousness or spirituality, all the proof in the world won't induce faith in any case, as I doubt it would be recognized. What is a comforting fantasy to some is concrete evidence to another. 🙂
This makes no logical sense. How can a fantasy ever be concrete evidence? Perhaps our brain is just wired to feel pleasure during a peaceful death. Neuroscience is doing some remarkable studies on the brain changes at death ..it actually has measurable activity for minutes after people are pronounced dead.
Like religion, understanding the death experience for us will always be above our pay grade.
Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
When they can talk, they tell me they are reaching for the angels, or for God, for Jesus, for their mom, their spouse. One person turned to me and said "I can't go.” I said, "You can go.” She said, "How?”
Specializes in Psych, Addictions, SOL (Student of Life).
Well the end of life visions are caused by the pineal gland dumping large amounts of DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) into the brain. As to content especially knowledge of the death of others and seeing said persons as a vision I can only guess. While I do not identify with organized religion, there is something spiritual going on.
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Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN
11,305 Posts
The point of the book "Final Gifts" is that "medicine" and family members ignore or write off as a dementia, a dying patient's last gestures or words. And we should be paying attention - caring for them. Not ignoring them. Whether you believe or not.
That is compassion.
steph