Why Do Anesthesiologists Despise CRNA's?

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Hello all! I was browsing a student doctor forum that I've been lurking around on for years "Student Doctor Network" (Gasforums). After reading through a lot of the posts, I was a little concerned. Just wondering if anyone knows why they despise CRNA's so much? It's very alarming and confusing to me. I've seen some talk about it before on this forum, but jeez- it's really bad over there! They're sarcastic, mean, joke about CRNA's, post all sorts of things about the legislations and bills concerning AA's in the hopes that CRNA's jobs will be abolished one day?! Why so much anger? Being a CRNA is my ultimate goal one day, but I would not feel comfortable working in an environment where there are doctors that hate me or resent me- just for my job? When my sis had her baby and the anesthesiologist came in to talk to her, I took the opportunity to talk to him about my interest in becoming a CRNA. He was so helpful and actually went to a website (gaswork.com) on his laptop computer to show me all the jobs for CRNA. Then he said if he could do it again would've went that route! So am I to understand that the majority of docs are not like him?

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Anesthesiologists are only one facet of the huge array of MDs. There are surgeons, family practice docs, peds, etc...

For the most part, resistance from MDs comes from young anesthesiologists and some of the old guard that remain politically active. The fact is that MDs flocked to anesthesia in the '70s when the government became more active in reimbursement for med school. The anesthesia specialty or practice then began to really grow in numbers related to the fact that so many could now afford med school. As time has gone by, it has become evident that anesthesia practiced by MDs is no more safe or dangerous when compared to the unsupervised CRNA doing identical cases. Statistically there is no difference between succesful anesthesia plans and care provided by the two groups, when compared in any setting.

That being said, the cost to educate MDs vs a nurse is not comparable. Tax dollars spent on the cost of education of an MD out weigh any public investment in a CRNAs education by more than 10. In other words, you can add up all of the costs of a hospital, insurance and endowments given to CRNA education versus MD-Anesthesia (Or DO) and the public can help educate 10+ CRNAs for the cost of one MD-anesthesiologist. Furthermore, the compensation demands of the two profession, although they provide the same care, are not even, with the average Anesthesiologist earning anywhere from 30-60% more than the average CRNA in his area or location.

It breaks down to a battle of territory. Bu the fact remains that almost 70% of ALL ANESTHESIA in the US is carried out by CRNAs. CRNAs are safe and effective as well as cost effective in our already strained healthcare system. As baby boomers begin to retire, the reciprocating funds needed to care for them as they age will be stretched thin, to say the least. States are constantly having to re-evaluate the role of the MDa and the CRNA. And many precendents are turniing in favor for the CRNA, susch as equal billing and payment from medicare. Ultimately, the MDA stands to lose money and dsitinction from the CRNA as CRNAs continue to demonstrate that they are effective, safe and affordable providers of anesthesia. Recently, more and more monies are being allocated for the CRNAs to become involved with anesthesia research. Where before testing medications, theories, and new techniques may have been predominately recognized only by work of an MD, the CRNAs in research are making strides in that area as well.

I think when you are exposed to the OR in various capacities, you will find that the disdain for CRNAs does not come from the surgeons or other practitioners, but as I said, usually young Anesthesiologists. There are exceptions, of course.

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Thanks a lot for the response TexasGas. After doing a lot of reading on the forum over there and here (especially with the numerous CRNA vs. AA discussions), my friend asked why would I even want to get involved with such unhappiness? After reading about one MDA on the other fourm- sorry let me correct myself as I have learned from their forum that they despise being called MDA's (and I do not want to offend anyone)- he said he told his job he refused to be involved with the supervision/help of any more CRNA'S and the next time he was asked, had no problem with walking off the job. That scared me quite a bit as I just could not imagine that being me caught in the middle of all that... why can't everyone just get along and sing "We Are the World" lol?

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Specializes in Palliative Care, NICU/NNP.

Probably for some of them it's the MD/RN thing. How can a nurse possibly do what I've trained for years for? mentality. I know this is very simplistic but when I was and NNP the neos were extremely supportive of their NNPS but the Pedis didn't like the idea at all.

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That sucks... I would rather be judged on the skills that I possess that enable me to do the job I do; I feel everyone is different. I'm sure there are "mediocre" people in every job situation- MD's included. Shouldn't one not make any judgement until they have observed the actual person's work ethic and skills? I just pray that when (and I KNOW it will be one day that I will get there) I get there, I don't have anyone judging me before I have a chance to show 'em what I got!

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My father is a Cardiologist and he always states how the medical profession is going down the drain and several of his collegues always complain how medicine isn't fun any more. Take in mind he has been a doctor, board certified in Internal Medicine and Cardiology, for 38 years! From what I can see, it all stems from money and greed. I gaurentee you if I was a DO who is in family practice, with 7 years of medical school, making only $100-150K a year. While a CRNA with only 2-3 years of study can make up to 35-50% more in their first year!

I also believe it is your personality that determine's how people treat you. If you let MD's talk down to you they will. But if you are dominant, make level eye contact, are confident, and pleasant they will most likely be really nice to you. And just because a person talks a big game like the MDA on the other forum, my guess is they are all bark and no bite.

Science and Medicine is evolving and will always evolve. Do you know how much heat DO's took when they where trying to prove they can be just as effective as MD's in their early years?

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My father is a Cardiologist and he always states how the medical profession is going down the drain and several of his collegues always complain how medicine isn't fun any more. Take in mind he has been a doctor, board certified in Internal Medicine and Cardiology, for 38 years! From what I can see, it all stems from money and greed. I gaurentee you if I was a DO who is in family practice, with 7 years of medical school, making only $100-150K a year. While a CRNA with only 2-3 years of study can make up to 35-50% more in their first year!

I also believe it is your personality that determine's how people treat you. If you let MD's talk down to you they will. But if you are dominant, make level eye contact, are confident, and pleasant they will most likely be really nice to you. And just because a person talks a big game like the MDA on the other forum, my guess is they are all bark and no bite.

Science and Medicine is evolving and will always evolve. Do you know how much heat DO's took when they where trying to prove they can be just as effective as MD's in their early years?

You are so right! I had forgotten all about that. I was pre-med years ago (which is why I had been on the student doctor forum for so long), and there was always a big debate about MD'S vs DO's... I had completely forgotten about that. They used to say DO's weren't "real docs" because they couldn't get into an "MD" school so they settled for "DO" school. Crazy!! Although I have a ways to go (2 more years to complete BSN), I know FOR SURE that this is what I want to do, I read everything I can get my hands on about the field- I even have a legal size file folder that is ripping at the seams on the subject! Bucknangler thanks so much for the good info- I feel better.

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My cousin is a young anesthesiologist who says if she were to do it all over again, she'd be a CRNA. --Better work hours, lower school loans, less pressure and responsibility, plus a decent paycheck --those are reasons she cites.

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Because the CRNA's are taking jobs away from Anesthesiologists.

In many rural area hospitals, such as my area, they may only employ ONE Anesthesiologists and 4 or 5 CRNA's.

If there wasn't a such thing as a CRNA, the Anesthesiolgists would have to fill those positions, at a significant increase in cost to the hospital...they wouldn't have the same many working, they would have fewer and work them longer hours...which I don't care how you slice it, once you've been on the floor too long your brain turns to mush.

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sorry, double post

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My cousin is a young anesthesiologist who says if she were to do it all over again, she'd be a CRNA. --Better work hours, lower school loans, less pressure and responsibility, plus a decent paycheck --those are reasons she cites.

There is the same amount of pressure and responsibility in being a CRNA as there is being an MD. I don't abdicate those things to the anesthesiologist that I work with. In fact, as I am the one actually administering the anesthetic and they are not, I'd think my stress and responsibility may be greater. IMHO

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There is the same amount of pressure and responsibility in being a CRNA as there is being an MD. I don't abdicate those things to the anesthesiologist that I work with. In fact, as I am the one actually administering the anesthetic and they are not, I'd think my stress and responsibility may be greater. IMHO

My cousin (the anesthesiologist), says that the CRNAs blame the anesthesiologist when there is a problem as the responsibility is ultimately the anesthesiologist who is in charge. --Personally, I am one to take the blame when it is due me. I will even speak up if necessary. I think I can understand her point that she has more stress --she has to answer for the actions of others, as well as herself...

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