Why can we not solve the nursing problems peacefully???

Jason-ACNP · Apr 25, 2001

I have the same question regarding the time frame. Although hospitals have had years (in most cases) to address the issues that will be presented to them, they clearly have failed to do so. Most have not even begun to try. Their solution has been to throw more money to agency nurses to fill the gap. Thus, if a large number of nurses are serious about a walkout if change is not generated, then we need to give them (hospitals) a feasible amount of time to make change. While there are sporadic strikes in various hospitals across the country, America has never once been faced with what is being proposed. On the flip side, Americans have the attention span of a gnat. If too much time were to pass, the momentum would eventually be lost if action weren't taken. How much time? That would have to be discussed. I'm thinking six weeks to at least see a major plan in the works.

But before it goes any further, you really need to look at who is serious about this. The magnitude of such a movement would require an organized, step-wise approach. I would not know any other way to initiate this other than conducting a poll on the BB. At that point, it would have to be word of mouth at work and in the community. Ask your colleagues to log on (who aren't members) if they are serious about this (or if they seriously oppose this as well). Also ask your neighbors if you are close to them. Will they support you? If we can generate a significant amount of support on this website, then a letter could easily be drafted.

I feel that there are several valid concerns. For instance, many nurses are either single moms or a significant source of income for a two-parent family. Thus, they may feel that their jobs would be jeopardized. Others may feel that they could not possibly abandon patients. Personally, I respect and appreciate both concerns. I agree that if you found yourself alone (or with a sporifice number of people) on this issue within your own hospital, etc., then you could possibly be terminated. They may cut their losses by identifying a few 'troublemakers" rather than have a these nurses "rock the boat" by attempting to call attention to these consequential issues. On the other hand, if your colleagues support you, then you may realize a different outcome. Secondly, it obviously would not be a 100% walkout. Children and other patients on vents, in burn units, and other critical areas would be cared for. Yet, even if 20% of the workforce (or even 10%) walked-out, there would be chaos. Hospitals would be crippled. (Unfortunately, so would the nurses who were left behind, but it would only be temporary). Remember this. When Reagan fired the stewardesses in the eighties, his thinking may have been, "Hell, how long does it take to train someone to pass out drinks and peanuts". It's not the case here. If enough support were generated, hospitals would have no choice but to meet the needs of nurses.

There is one more thing. While nursing is about caring, the healthcare industry in general is about money. Administrators and many physicians are driven by money. If they weren't, then why haven't they cut their six (or seven) digit salaries to meet the needs of nurses? Hospitals across this country have cut ancillary staff in huge numbers to "save a buck". Who pays? You do. Most of you have far more responsibility today than nurses did twenty years ago. You have more patients, more "tasks", and the looming threat of mandatory overtime. If healthcare were about caring, then the imbeciles would not have taken away the ancillary support staff that allowed you to EFFECTIVELY care for your patients.

The key here is support, support, and most importantly, serious support from each state. I would think that a small number of voices (of the 2.5 million nurses in this country) would not carry much weight. These media outlets receive (I imagine) maybe a few thousand pieces of mail every day. That may be way off, I don't know. But they would have to be bombarded with these letters. Also, I think the letter should also be signed by the person mailing it (vs. having it signed by a group) to give.

If enough support is generated, then nurses could then compile a list of issues on the BB. (The things that you need changed in chronological order. We all know what most of them are. Obviously mandatory overtime is a significant issue, as well as many other things, such as patient/staff ratio, less "non-nursing duties", and the list goes on.)

That's a starting point. If a letter were generated, then maybe several hundred could be mailed to nursing magazines to generate support. The only problem is that

1.) That may lose the element of surprise with other media outlets, dampening the blow of receiving thousands of letters within a very short time period.

2.)The "head-honchos" of these nursing magazines (many with advanced degrees) may view this as "guerrilla warfare of healthcare" and not endorse the movement. In fact, the may publicly denounce it all together. Or maybe they will support you. It's something to consider.

Anyway, in addition to alerting the television media, I would also send a letter to the paper sources, such as Time, Newsweek, the New York Times, the LA Times, and the Washington Post. Maybe even a woman's magazine (you decide) would pick this up. The point is that the more outlets you hit, the better your chances of being heard.

That may be a start anyway.

Originally posted by nurs4kids:
Jason,
You're exactly right. We will have to be willing to back our threat. We also need to be realistic. Is two weeks really feasible for management to meet our demands? I'm not saying it isn't, I'm asking. I had also thought about Nurse's Week, and like you, I don't know that date .

Jason, Do you have the time to play a major part in this? I'm sure we can count on Wildtime and some others, and I'll do my part but I can't do all the "leg work" alone.

Great ideal about giving them Wildtime's phone #, address, etc. If anyone can scare them he can! , wildtime

Jason-ACNP · Apr 25, 2001

I am 100% with you Rick

Originally posted by CEN35:
Ok I only have one thing to say, For weeks I have said, "The only way to educate the public, and/or get anything accomplished these days are through the media."

Could it be people are actually listening or realizing this finally????????

Rick

nurs4kids · Apr 25, 2001

Ok, Rick,

is that testesterone I smell?? you were correct, as usual

Originally posted by CEN35:
Ok I only have one thing to say, For weeks I have said, "The only way to educate the public, and/or get anything accomplished these days are through the media."

Could it be people are actually listening or realizing this finally????????

Rick

rncountry · Apr 26, 2001

What you are all proposing is close the original premise of the million nurse march. The idea was for rallies in every state, an educational process for the public. We did not go into a possible walk out though.

Next Nurses week is the 6th through the 12th of May.

And Reagan fired the air traffic controllers, not airline stewardess'. They were ordered back to work by the government while striking as a public safety issue. When they refused they were fired, because hey that didn't affect public safety. I clearly remember this because in a highly unionized state like Michigan it was big news, big news across the country, but the unions here went ballistic. That union breaking move by Reagan is what severely affected unions and their ability to negogiate, membership in unions starting dropping after that. And labor became a bit more accomandating to managament. Even the UAW here backed off alot. Walk outs that have occured in Canada by Canadian nurses that were legal strikes were also meant by the government ordering the nurses back to work. Can find that information in Revolution magazine. And think this too, less than 10 percent of healthcare workers are organized in labor unions. There are just many that do not feel comfortable with that, not saying it is right or wrong, just that it is. I know this would not be a walkout that is union led, but think that if you can't even get nurses to vote in a union, how many do you think would walk out without even union protections. And as has been pointed out if the walk out did not actually happen, we would lose all credibility.

Just tossing out some information and a bit of opinion here.

mustangsheba · Apr 26, 2001

Couldn't we send a letter with an enclosed card to every licensed nurse in each state. The letter could state our purpose and the card would ask if they would support the project - yes or no. Sort of a market search to figure out how much support we would actually get. I have no idea how much this would cost; how much is a penny postcard anyway? We should be able to get a mailing list from the Boards of Nursing in each state. If need be, we could get volunteers to do the count. We could make a decision on future actions based on the returns. Timing is paramount. The media should be blitzed. Notification to the medical facilities should give no more than six weeks and it should clearly state what our expectations are, when the stand down would occur, how long it will last, and what services we will cover while it lasts. Covering the critical needs will still take a big bite out of profits - no elective surgeries, nurses would do patient care only. That means no secretarial or janitorial or food services. We need the media support because they will be presenting our case. We need them on our side. We shouldn't drag it out once the decision is made.

Huganurse · Apr 26, 2001

natalie · Apr 26, 2001

A postcard to every licensed RN would cost $650,000.00. That's if it's a quarter per card/2.6 million nurses.

I think cyberspace is a great place to bounce ideas off each other, have discussions, keep informed. That's about all it's good for. If you want to organize, it most likely will not happen through this venue. You need to do it community by community, hospital by hospital, state by state. Solution: Join your state nurses association and work with them.

Jason-ACNP · Apr 26, 2001

I do agree with you. As I said before, the pressure that would result from a "walk-out" would seem insurmountable. It would be deemed "radical" by 99% of the population. And you are right about another point. Although a large percentage of nurses are grossly dissatisfied with their present working conditions, it may be that the vast majority of nurses would scoff at the thought of a revolution. Some would fear loss of their jobs, while others couldn't stand the thought of leaving their patients. Yet, for others, lack of participation would stem from a lack of a spine. My biggest concern would be that nurses would eventually balk, regardless of their convictions. While I feel that nursing lost its credibilty long ago, I am certain that both internal and external support for a subsequent "rally" would be forever gone.

I've never heard of the Million Nurse March, but the concept does seem to parallel what is being proposed here. Did it ever take place? My immediate concern is that it would be dimissed as a "feel good" event. I agree that the public needs serious education regarding nursing. Yet, I stand by my statement that Americans have the attention span of a gnat. Furthemore, based on what I've seen in the media and my years of experience in various hospitals across the country, the public (in general) has little regard for nurses. Thus, I have to question the impact (or lack of)that a nationwide campaign to "educate" the public would have. It would certainly reach "some" people, but the mainstream of "Leno jokes" or "political cartoons" in nationwide newspapers would be relentless as well. However, I do like the idea if it were incorporated with a list of issues to be addressed in the immediate future.

I completely agree that a massive walk-out is the least desirable outcome for everyone involved. Yet, as I said before, nursing has lost its credibility. As an NBC national news segment pointed out several weeks ago, nursing is generally viewed as a menial, laborious JOB with little hope of advancement (unless you pursue an advanced degree) As a result, a walk-out has already been initiated. Many nurses are leaving every year. Although the process began a several years ago, its effects have only been felt in the last two years or so.(Of course, decreased enrollment in nursing schools is a significant factor).

If the problem is not addressed within the near future (one to two years), it will eventually gain much more coverage in later years, as the "snowball effect" places the healthcare industry in a crisis that will be extremely difficult to recover from.

Thanks for the clarification on Reagan and the air traffic controllers. (I was just a small kid in south Texas at the time Thanks for your input as well.

Originally posted by rncountry:
What you are all proposing is close the original premise of the million nurse march. The idea was for rallies in every state, an educational process for the public. We did not go into a possible walk out though.
Next Nurses week is the 6th through the 12th of May.
And Reagan fired the air traffic controllers, not airline stewardess'. They were ordered back to work by the government while striking as a public safety issue. When they refused they were fired, because hey that didn't affect public safety. I clearly remember this because in a highly unionized state like Michigan it was big news, big news across the country, but the unions here went ballistic. That union breaking move by Reagan is what severely affected unions and their ability to negogiate, membership in unions starting dropping after that. And labor became a bit more accomandating to managament. Even the UAW here backed off alot. Walk outs that have occured in Canada by Canadian nurses that were legal strikes were also meant by the government ordering the nurses back to work. Can find that information in Revolution magazine. And think this too, less than 10 percent of healthcare workers are organized in labor unions. There are just many that do not feel comfortable with that, not saying it is right or wrong, just that it is. I know this would not be a walkout that is union led, but think that if you can't even get nurses to vote in a union, how many do you think would walk out without even union protections. And as has been pointed out if the walk out did not actually happen, we would lose all credibility.
Just tossing out some information and a bit of opinion here.

Jason-ACNP · Apr 26, 2001

You are absolutely right.. organization should really begin at the community level, with everyone then supporting their state nursing association. Through your state's organization, you have a powerful, collective voice. In my state, there are approx. 28,000 RNs and APNs, but less than 3% belong to the state nursing organization. It's due to the annual cost of $200 per year. Yet, physicians pay anywhere from $5000 to $10,000 (depending on their specialty) to the AMA alone, in addition to the dues to their state's association. Your state organization can and will be an effective communicator for you. You just have to let your voice be heard.

Originally posted by natalie:
A postcard to every licensed RN would cost $650,000.00. That's if it's a quarter per card/2.6 million nurses.

I think cyberspace is a great place to bounce ideas off each other, have discussions, keep informed. That's about all it's good for. If you want to organize, it most likely will not happen through this venue. You need to do it community by community, hospital by hospital, state by state. Solution: Join your state nurses association and work with them.

leesonlpn · Apr 27, 2001

To Fergus51-Currently in BC the BCNU is in a strike position. The rn's have refused to work overtime, and to not perform any non-nursing duties.(which there are about 1000) The Licensed Practical Nurses belong to another union, HEU, Hospital Employees Union. We totally support the RN's, and we refused to do non-nursing duties as well. That means letting the phone ring,,,,,,and ring,,,,,,,,there is an extension the departments are supposed to use, and the doctors, but they don't.Laundry hampers overflow. Management is supposed to come around and empty them. Suddenly, it has turned into an LPN duty.I called management the other day as we needed the IV cart stocked, charts to be filled, lab results to be filed, doctors orders to be faxed as well as laundry hampers to be emptied. The acting administrator said "I'll send someone to do those thing, but don't you have any LPN"s? I said yes, I was one, she said "You're supposed to empty the hampers." I told her we support the RN's etc, and she said we still had to do it. I phoned our union rep and was told do only what you normally do, don't make an effort do more. That still leaves 8 laundry hampers not emptied. The acting administrator "ORDERED" an LPN getting off her shift in 20 minutes, to carbolize a room. She said no, it was a non-nursing duty etc. He said "I Order you to do it" She said,"Like Bloody Hell you're ordering me to do it. You come up here and do it yourself" It is really getting testy. Management is playing a great game. We get so fed up, and end up doing the things were aren't supposed to do anyway. They bank on that I guess.Right now, as an LPN I feel like I'm pig in the middle. Oink.

[This message has been edited by leesonlpn (edited April 26, 2001).]

Mijourney · Apr 28, 2001

Hi nurs4kids. I think you offer a very plausible alternative to us. There are a number of good suggestions on this bb for addressing the plight of nursing. I do agree that, foremost, it is imperative that each individual nurse consistently and regularly vouch for nursing even if involved with a nursing group. That could range from emailing or writing a letter to the editor of a newpaper or magazine, or writing to a well-recognized group, like the AARP, who I expect mailings from in the near future, writing to the world health organization, to writing the board of directors of a hospital.

Does anyone know if the ANA runs ads in the AARP bulletins to educate their members on nursing and the nursing shortage?

Again, good suggestion nurs4kids. Jason, you seem to have a keen ability to fill out the details with someone's idea.

-jt · Apr 28, 2001

Originally posted by wildtime88:
Wouldn't it be cool if we all withhld our services because one single nurse was singled out as an example?

it would be nice - but look at the facts - one nurse was just KILLED by a pt in Florida. Has anybody yet seen the riots or simultaneous protests of other nurses demanding adequate staffing & improvements in conditons that led to this tragedy ???

Anyway, if youre all going to do a walk-out -somebody should go get Nursedude - if he isnt already here.