Who to blame- MD or ER nurse??

Nurses General Nursing

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This is not the first time I received a pt with such a scenario fromt the ED.

Doctor asks us to take pt ASAP, since pt is possibly septic and he's had to personally hang fluids in ED because the nurse there seems to be "too busy". I work step-down, all pts on cardiac monitor, we do alines, drips.., but to a point- I have 4 pt's. Doctor assures us pt does not require ICU care. I call for report at 1700. Pt had been in ER since 1300 but only received 1 L out of 2L fluids ordered. Oh, only one IV access, so fluids where stopped while zosyn infused. I get last set of vitals (that the nurse "just" took) HR 98, SBP 110, 100%spo2 on RA... The nurse than asks me if I can come get the pt. Um, I assume care once the pt gets to my floor. Since when do floor nurses have the leisure to come get their pt's.?? She than asks me if the pt should come on cardiac monitor. I explain that we're a monitored floor, so probably yes, but it is her judgement call- I havent assessed the pt yet!

20min later, I look up, escort dropped off pt on a stretcher, no RN or MD or monitor. Pt looks pale, obviously very sick. Get my charge, get him into bed, hook him up to all fancy monitors. My first set of vitals: HR 130, BP 72/49, Spo2 98% on RA. 2 L bolus, insert another access BP does not increase. Pt is obviously septic, febrile, c/o of SOB, dyspnea. Poor clinical picture. Now running fluids wide open in both 18 G IV's. Finally, MD agrees to come see pt. I insert foley, set up Aline and CVP monitoring, MD inserts Aline and Central line. Pt is dyspneic, desatting to 80's by now on 6L NC. Albumin seems to help a little. For some reason, (maybe ICU nurses can explain here) glucose is 40.

3 hrs later, after 5-6L (not sure, just kept on hanging bags), Albumin, foley, central line, aline, 100% NRB, 50% dextrose for glucose level, ABG, full set of labs sent, Neo drip set up to ready to start, and much more, now mildly confused pt is rushed over to ICU. (I had 3 other pt's that I simply ignored this whole time)

HERE'S MY QUESTION:

This is not the first time that in report from ER I got a perfect set of vitals that totally doesnt correlate with the vitals I get on pt arrival. Did this pt's BP drop from 110 to 70 and HR increased from 98 to 130's in 30 minutes??? Yes, septic shock happens fast, but when I see this happening to ER pt's often, should I start thinking that nurse in out ER are doing s/t wrong? What else can explain this.

Second, do our ER nurses only see crashing pt's as sick? ER Nurses need to be educated that in suspected septic pt's, fluids must be started STAT, even if BP is ok. In early stage of septic shock BP often looks fine do to endotoxin effect on the CO. When the BP drops thats when its usually too late.

The above pt, in his late 30's didnt make it. Went into MODS... I truly regret not calling for report earlier (shouldnt have done so much teaching with my discharge pt earlier....)

I work in a step down unit also, and I consistently have to pump the er nursing staff for the real picture of my patient. I have received pt's that were clearly not stable for my unit and needed to be admitted to icu beds within the first hour with me. I have learned to question the bed placement (sometimes decided by the doc, other times by a tech who schedules beds for the whole hospital) and to probe the pt condition and how recent the assessment was.

Sorry this happened to you and the pt.

another issue we face is that our doctor's like to maintain control of their pt's as long as possible. When they go to ICU, the ICU team takes over by us and the primary doctor becomes a consult and cant even place orders. So to prevent this from happening they push the pt to our unit first.

Specializes in Critical care.
It sounds like everyone involved was too busy. A 30yo with sepsis but good vitals- I would have also made him less of a priority than a 75 yo with almost any admittable diagnosis I'd assume that he has more reserve.

Sorry to pick on you, and moreso an honest attempt at education than just an e-jab at you...

I have to point out my disagreement with this first bit...Saying the ED was too busy in general...that's one thing. But failing to recognize this specific pt was near the top of the heap is another thing entirely.

Viewing a truly septic 30 yo as you state is terribly short-sighted and the very reason sepsis protocols should start in the ED. This pt needed aggressive intervention before his big crash. Having the benefit of hindsight, the only thing the good vitals meant was that the ole endotoxin was having it's way with him. Endotoxins don't care if his heart was 30 or 75 yrs old, they were gonna whip it hard none-the-less. It's up to us to apply our hard-earned hindsight to the next poor sap that presents septic with 'great vitals', and not be lulled by their youth or nice, ruddy complexions. By the time the Levo comes out upstairs in the ICU, their chances have slipped considerably.

Right now, early, aggressive intervention is our best way to ensure these pt's walk back out the doors through which they came. [stepping off the soapbox]

Sounds like a classic dump. The E.R. staff, I hope is not that stupid in your facility. I agree this warrants an incident report because no nurse should receive someone from the E.R. and within 1 hour or less transfering to the ICU. Like all hospital now days, mine no different, are starting a team of nurses call ACT FAST or RAPID RESPONSE TEAM or whatever they are calling them at your facility, call them first. Almost all patient before coding have signs that something if not done quickly to correct them will result in death. And I'm sure your E.R. staff probaly saw some of these signs and quickly got the patient out of there before he coded on them, that is why I am calling this a classic dump from the E.R. But I said this before and I will say it again just because you no longer have the patient does NOT mean you are no longer responsible for the outcome of the patient and that includes E.R. Doctors and the hospital........

Specializes in Med Surg, Ortho.
what is MODS?

I see that no one answered....so I'll try.

I'm a new medsurg floor nurse, but if I remember correctly,

it's stands for Mulitlple Organ Dysfunction Syndrome.

Happens in the last stage of sepsis/death. Anybody feel

free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Great thread for all us students to read, hey I actually understand it all

Keep all the details coming all you highly experienced ED/ICU folks. :bowingpur

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