Whats the Catch: RN to MSN?

[sandiegotrish]

I ask because I don't know, and would like some insight. Can getting an MSN preclude a BSN for a nurse who wants to work like any other nurse and gain experience in the trenches, but wants to have her degrees under their belt up front?

Reason I ask: I have a bachelor's degree in a non-related field and so I have the choice in front of me to go for a second bachelors (BSN) or go for ADN>MSN (among other choices). The ADN>MSN sounds like the best choice, no?.

Please understand I have no intention of jumping right to management or NP out of the gate, just to obtain up front the degree I would prob get eventually anyway (MSN).

Is there added value? Are their obvious cons?

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

That is exactly what I have mentioned I want to do, in both my OP and comment: get the more advanced degree after my RN, obtain general floor nursing experience, either way, before moving on the management positions. The MSN seems to serve the purpose that a BSN in my state will do, which is open doors for general nursing jobs (since the ADN doesn't) but then already have the masters under my belt for later on down the road when I am ready for a more senior management position. The question comes about to figure out if my logic is sound.

Regardless of which route you take I would suggest getting nursing experience before finishing school. By us BSN is preferred, but ADN's are hired and recently started having to sign a contract promising to get their BSN within 3 years or being fired. Where BSN is required I've heard of nurses getting their foot in the door by already being enrolled in a BSN program with the expectation that they would complete it. I think it would be strange to do an MSN without any actual nursing experience and would make it harder to get a job, although I have read one NP did this when she couldn't get a nursing job and it worked for her. I wouldn't recommend this option though.

[DeeAngel]

What if you go into debt, go through all that and discover you hate nursing? I can't tell you how many people I know of who went through nursing school, found the real life working environment a nightmare and left nursing forever. If you get an AD not only is it cheaper but you can work and go to school while you finish the rest. If you're going to possibly make a mistake, pick the least expensive way to do it.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Not exactly what the OP was asking about, but....

Today there are a number of RN to MSN programs that do not include getting a BSN, or any other bachelors degree along the way. They have become quite popular where I work due to the generous education assistance we receive as part of our benefits package (thanks to the Union!).

Many of these programs can be completed in about the same amount of time as the traditional RN to BSN programs, and for some people it can take LESS time to get an MSN vs a BSN. In particular nontraditional students who's transcripts might include CLEP and or credit for military training. This applies particularly in my area where nursing associates degrees are Associates of applied science, vs Associates of arts as in California and some other places.

For example who looking at an RN to BSN program many, or most are going to require 9 credits of this, 4 of that, 6 of this, etc that must be completed before one can begin the 32 (or so) credit actual BSN portion of the degree.

As opposed to the RN to MSN programs I am aware of who do not consider what classes you already took, just if you have the actual associates degree from an accredited college. This enables students to begin the actual MSN program right away, rather than taking other classes to satisfy bachelors degree requirements.

Typically these programs are about 44 credits for an RN with an associates degree, give or take, depending on the university and program. 44 credits is quite a bit fewer credits than may be needed to earn a BSN for many people.

The drawback is that they are very expensive. But not really an issue for employees where I work.

The most popular program I see people doing is the University of Arizona's online RN to MSN.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

My 2 cents-most DNPs require the BSN, you can go BSN to DNP but not MSN to DNP without the BSN. Also, it seems the trend is requiring a DNP so you might be in a little trouble. I know that PT are now DPT and OT are becoming ODT, pharmacists are becoming PharmD and I have heard that CRNAs are going to need a DNP soon. Some schools are not even offering a MSN for the APRN or FNP programs any more.

It seems so confusing because there seems to be no consistency from place to place.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

My 2 cents-most DNPs require the BSN, you can go BSN to DNP but not MSN to DNP without the BSN.

Both the University of Minnesota and Wisconsin accept applicants to their DNP APN programs with an MSN and no bachelors degree. I checked.

Also, it seems the trend is requiring a DNP so you might be in a little trouble.

That is only a suggestion for advanced practice nursing. We are not discussing APNs.

pharmacists are becoming PharmD

Became, not becoming.

and I have heard that CRNAs are going to need a DNP soon.

Not quite the case. CRNAs is the only APN specialty to require a doctorate and that is in 2025, but they don't require a DNP. They really can't since most CRNA schools are not located inside schools of nursing. This is exactly why only a few require a BSN to apply.

Some schools are not even offering a MSN for the APRN or FNP programs any more.

True, but I wasn't referring to APNs.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Even though you will graduate with an MSN, you will apply for a New Grad position just as all other new RNs do. It can be a good path to take, especially if hospitals in your area are willing to hire the generalist MSN new grads. (You can always contact HR of hospitals you are interested in and talk to them about their hiring practices.!

This is such good advice. Not every place will hire direct entry MSN grads. My hospital doesn't hire them as new grads, but will with a couples years experience. Check first.

[APRN., DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

This is such good advice. Not every place will hire direct entry MSN grads. My hospital doesn't hire them as new grads, but will with a couples years experience. Check first.

Yes. However, my hospital prefers the MSN. (Newer Magnet hospital).

Also, it makes no sense to not hire new MSN grads. The clinical hours are around 500 alone for just the MSN portion, in addition to BSN.

Does your hospital give a rationale as to why the MSN degree holder is passed over for a BSN degree holder? Very curious.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Yes. However, my hospital prefers the MSN. (Newer Magnet hospital).

Also, it makes no sense to not hire new MSN grads. The clinical hours are around 500 alone for just the MSN portion, in addition to BSN.

Does your hospital give a rationale as to why the MSN degree holder is passed over for a BSN degree holder? Very curious.

There was a lot of excitement about them when they were new programs and a bunch of them were hired. Low successes rates in the nurse residency program is the reason given. What goes unsaid is that management thought that they had too many attitude problems. The Direct entry MSN people I am referring to don't have BSNs.

Also BSN and ADNs are hired interchangeably here. We have been unable to predict success in the residency program based on ADN or BSN. One thing we have found is that (so far) we have 100% of ADN RNs completing their 2 year contract they sign to get into the 9 month residency. Less than half of the BSNs do.

[Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP]

The reason would be because it's a much more attractive proposition to a new employer to have a BSN and not just an ADN. There are a ton of nurses out there looking for a job and if it's a BSN RN vs an ADN RN, pretty much the BSN is going to get the job. I started seeing the horizon change a few years ago and transitioned from a diploma (yes, I'm old) to a BSN and within 2 months I had a new job at much higher pay. I started my MSN just a few months later and I'm now in a place where my manager lets me have time off for school and such, that I don't think would have happened in my previous job.

Why such a hurry? You could absolutely get an ADN, but then you might find that it really isn't as rewarding in terms of employment opportunities, and then decide to get your ADN-BSN which will cost you more money. Also, if you have your BSN and some experience, you can pretty much walk into any MSN program if your GPA is good. It just enhances your chances. Trust me...I've been in nursing a very long time. Experience + letters after your name + good GPA = nursing nirvana. A BSN is the absolute best investment if you're serious about being a nurse. Once you're an RN you can have the opportunity to work in any nursing arena and see where you'd like to specialize further. Right now you're counting and your intuition only without having any experience of what each area of nursing is like. It will be hard to get a job in an ICU with an ADN if you suddenly decide you want to work in acute care. Just my 2c.

But the ADN makes you an RN ready to get a nursing job on the floor, no? Why then go for BSN only to have to get an MSN later still? The cost seems outrageous. Not to mention you can get a general MSN. In my state an ADN doesn't get you a job so you have to continue on and get more degrees before you get your experience anyway. Why not Do the more advanced degree? I'm not sure why this has to be so much more complicated than any other masters degree and I'm not sure you answer has helped me learn anything more than I did before I posted. I would love some real insight here, not just calling me insane for considering doing something that is offered by schools and obviously done by students. I'm trying to get a picture of what is the best path, not avoid earning experience.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Yes. However, my hospital prefers the MSN. (Newer Magnet hospital).

That makes total sense. My ICU/ER/ Transport RN friends and I consider Magnet hospitals to be employers of last resort.

I do wonder, How many people are going to be willing to make the investment for a bachelors degree, then a graduate degree for a job that is stressful, hard physical labor, and in many places, pays about twenty bucks and hour?

[PMFB-RN, RN]

A BSN is the absolute best investment if you're serious about being a nurse.

I respectfully disagree. Considering that an RN with an ADN can earn a MSN in clinical systems leadership, management or education with about the same times investment as a BSN. I think many would be better off skipping the BSN and going strait for the MSN.

[Rocknurse, MSN, APRN, NP]

I respectfully disagree. Considering that an RN with an ADN can earn a MSN in clinical systems leadership, management or education with about the same times investment as a BSN. I think many would be better off skipping the BSN and going strait for the MSN.

Perhaps, but it wouldn't fly if you wanted to work in the ICU, OR or cath lab. Depends on your perspective.

I should elaborate. There are many paths to get to all kinds of places in nursing. If you want to do education or management then it can be practical to go straight for an MSN. If your desire is to be clinical, working as a BSN with certifications is the best route. Should you choose to specialize further, then an NP MSN is the next choice. However, it is far more difficult to get into one of those programs without a BSN, if not impossible.