What do you think of using paramedics for nursing shortage

[sweetpooty]

We are considering the use of Paramedics and LPNs to help with the nursing shortage. Is this something that you would be comfortable with. Do you think that an RN would then be responsible for the paramedic. What areas do you think this would work in and not. I need your help to present this at our next meeting if it's a bad thing I would like to make sure it doesn't happen.

Thanks!

[rn/writer, RN]

And this is the crux of the debate: not some useless argument about 'skill-sets' or, as you say, a return to that debate.

But it's not just about how the issue affects nurses. I'm not opposed to the idea that paramedics be allowed to expand their opportunities. Both sides of the debate have to be balanced.

And it IS true that paramedics are grossly underpaid and having more 'in-house' opportunities could address that positively - for all paramedics whether they work 'in-house' or not. But. As you say: at what point is this more a boon for paramedics, and it what point is it more a disadvantage for nurses.

Because, in the end, the whole purpose - from the bean counter's perspective - of this exercise is DECREASING the value of nurses. To the extent that paramedics gain from such in-roads, the design is that nurses pay the cost of that gain by decreasing demand and, as a direct result, stagnated salaries.

To put it bluntly: this is an economic issue.

~faith,

Timothy.

Yes and no. The whole purpose from the bean counters' perspective is to spend as little and make as much as possible. Devaluing nurses is not the goal, but the means to an end.

They did this same thing when they used HMOs to pull the rug out from under a lot of docs. Remember how a whole bunch of tasks and procedures previously limited to MDs suddenly filtered downward? When I saw that happening, I knew that all the talk of getting rid of LPNs was baloney. Bean counters want everything pushed downward so they can eliminate the most expensive branches at the top. You can hire a whole fleet of LPNs for the price of one doc.

It's to the advantage of all of us clinical folks to try to agree on coordination of efforts and then present a united front to the "cost cutters." I'm not naive enough to think this is a big possibility, but it's the one that would benefit us the most.

[rn_imw]

Laying aside all the legalities, which in fact cannot be laid aside at all........but just for a moment........I have ONE question.......Does this mean that in PUBLIC Ceremonies when Police/Fireman AND Paramedics are noted for their honorable services (which they SHOULD be) Nurses will also be given like recognition??????? WHERE would America be without the Nurses that care for its people? Yet, how many times do you hear a Public Thank You to Nurses????? Very seldom! Thanks for letting me have two cents here......

:caduceus: LETS HEAR IT FOR THE NURSES!

[anniemm]

As a paramedic with a 4yr degree in the field and a nursing student awaiting clinical testing, I feel that there can be a place in the hospital setting for former "street proffesionals". It doesn't work in all settings, but they can provide a valuable service in the hospital. They are an asset to IV Teams, Rapid Response Teams, Traige, and other fast paced areas that require a lot of hands on skills. Depending on the paramedic program attended is how much education one receives and whether they know why they are performing a skill. As with some nurses who have passed their training not all of them should be practicing. (be honest we all know at least one) As for Burn Out's comment "why make it easy for them to get off the streets" you're not liscencing them as an RN. Nor do they function as an RN. If that is the title they want they do go back to school! Passing the National Registry exam isn't as easy as you may think. Many may compare it to the NCLEX. No one places their favorite part of the job as cleaning up patients who have been incontinent or have vomited on themselves. I've heard the RN's state that that job is for the CNAs. Yes its hard to transition from almost total autonomy and thinking in a medical diagnogtic way to having to wait for orders for medications or procedures and think in a holistic way, but it can be done. For those EMSers who can't bring themselves down a notch to do a little of everything, they don't need to be in an in-hospital setting. For the RN's who think that EMSers can't do squawt and are only taxi drivers because they don't have 2 yrs training how do you treat your indigent patients that have no or little education. Pitty them.

[Romeo4u-RN]

I definitely agree. About the only place that I would suggest having an EMT in a clinical area, would be in the ER, and under the direct supervision of an RN. And yes, they should be given more education and training, before they are allowed to work in any hospital. After all, most of us have had to" sweat it out", just to get that BSN. The bottom line is, that even though paramedics are well trained and qualified, and may help to certain extent, alleviate the nursing shortage, in no way can you compare the academics and skills of a nurse with those of a paramedic. Let's keep it simple, patient care belongs to the nurses. Besides, this sounds like another cheap band-aid solution, that in the long run, will not benefit the nurses in any positive way, and instead will make these hospital CEO's more richer, and force alot of good nurses to an early retirement. And who knows, maybe they will soon start to recruit nurses from China, since just about everything we use, is made in China(yet no body complains). So lets do something about it. Any good ideas out there?

Romeo4u-RN

:yeahthat:

To whose advantage is it that paramedics get off the street and into the hospital faster? Certainly not to the patients on a Med-Surg unit,I don't think that paramedics are really taught how to tcdb a patient, put in foley catheters, monitor swan-ganz lines or set up cvps. Why should anyone be given a fast track to nursing . How can that render good quality of care. Sure they may be able to do it but do they but will they understand why

they are doing it.Make them learn it and pay for it just like the rest of us have had to struggle and do, it means nothing if we just hand out license

to just anybody.

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

I am OK with paramedics in the ER, but I don't want to be responsible for what they do. I think current nursing staff are all on the same page as far as patient care priorities, but in an EMT setting the priorities are slightly different. Their ultimate goal is to get pt to the hospital alive (and good for them), but nursing adds longer term goals, family care, rehab, infection prevention, that exist for an EMT too but really ALIVE is their main focus.

I think of EMT-p's as being on the same level as RN's but different. I don't want to be supervising an equal, especially if we come from completely different mind sets. I imagine the feeling would be mutual if I was allowed to board an ambulance and practice as an RN. It's just a breeding ground for conflict IMHO.