What do you think of using paramedics for nursing shortage

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We are considering the use of Paramedics and LPNs to help with the nursing shortage. Is this something that you would be comfortable with. Do you think that an RN would then be responsible for the paramedic. What areas do you think this would work in and not. I need your help to present this at our next meeting if it's a bad thing I would like to make sure it doesn't happen.

Thanks!:idea:

Where I work, paramedics are being used to function as equals to RNs and over LPNs. Their duties include but are not limited to: Taking verbal and telephone orders, administering medications, treatments and a wide variety of other duties. They are being paid $1 an hour more than RNs. They often let us nurses know that "Paramedics save 'em, nurses bath 'em". I feel that because our administrator once drove an ambulance might be one reason why so many signatures are now ending with "EMT-P" as opposed to LPN or RN.

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
To whose advantage is it that paramedics get off the street and into the hospital faster? Certainly not to the patients on a Med-Surg unit,I don't think that paramedics are really taught how to tcdb a patient, put in foley catheters, monitor swan-ganz lines or set up cvps. Why should anyone be given a fast track to nursing . How can that render good quality of care. Sure they may be able to do it but do they but will they understand why

they are doing it.Make them learn it and pay for it just like the rest of us have had to struggle and do, it means nothing if we just hand out license

to just anybody.

Most medics I knew certainly knew how to put in a foley. The other things you described aren't skills that are part of most nursing school curricula. Those are things you learn when you're hired into a critical care position.

I think many would do fine with a fast-track program; if they can make a fast-track program for people with a bach. degree totally unrelated to healthcare, why not one for medics?

I think we underestimate our paramedic/EMT friends. There was a recent article in a nursing magazine about IVs, and a comment was made about medics/EMTs not having good skills, aseptic technique, etc. Excuse me? People in the field are starting IVs in sub-optimal conditions most of the time; they don't have the luxury of a nice, clean pt. in a nice, clean bed. I'd defy a lot of nurses to start lines in some of the conditions that are considered "everyday" for a medic.

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Wow, you obviously have issues with paramedics. That certainly enlightens me on why you said the things you said.

Just to play devil's advocate then I'll stop.

Putting a paramedic in a nurses role is like putting a auto mechanic designing cars.

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.

I agree. Totally out of line. EMS personnel are valuable members of the health care team.

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To whose advantage is it that paramedics get off the street and into the hospital faster? Certainly not to the patients on a Med-Surg unit,I don't think that paramedics are really taught how to tcdb a patient, put in foley catheters, monitor swan-ganz lines or set up cvps. Why should anyone be given a fast track to nursing . How can that render good quality of care. Sure they may be able to do it but do they but will they understand why

they are doing it.Make them learn it and pay for it just like the rest of us have had to struggle and do, it means nothing if we just hand out license

to just anybody.

Perhaps those of you that think you know what paramedics are taught, might want to do research on the subject before posting opinions. I am a paramedic, 10 years, and I am waiting to take my NCLEX. I do not remeber once in nursing school being taught how to set up an a-line or swan. Hardly any hemodynamics, vents, and really any other invasive procedure. Thank god I went to paramedic school, where I placed chest tubes, a-lines, swans, performed ABG's, interpret 12 lead EKG's, advanced pharmacology, hemodynamic monitoring, suturing, casting, and much much more. Here is the website in case you doubt me, http://www.ems.MHRI.org.

I may be able to do it and I certainly know why I'm doing it. It is really a bother when nurses state their education prepared them to work in the ED or various ICU's. It didn't. Experience is what got you there.

This issue has nothing to do with patient care or education. It is just a defense mechanism. I have not read a single legitament reason why paramedics wouldn't work well in the ED. Sorry, but paramedics as techs is an insult. Paramedics, mostly work under a delegated practice. Well, since paramedics can do just about anything their medical director stipulates they can is pretty resourceful. After all, PA's function the same way. I guess according to nursing, PA's are below them because they work under a doctors license also.

Let's all get into 2006 and realize that what we don't know, can make us sound ridiculous.

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Well in the city that I live in there is a shortage of paramedics also so I guess that will not help the problem.

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Perhaps those of you that think you know what paramedics are taught, might want to do research on the subject before posting opinions. I am a paramedic, 10 years, and I am waiting to take my NCLEX. I do not remeber once in nursing school being taught how to set up an a-line or swan. Hardly any hemodynamics, vents, and really any other invasive procedure. Thank god I went to paramedic school, where I placed chest tubes, a-lines, swans, performed ABG's, interpret 12 lead EKG's, advanced pharmacology, hemodynamic monitoring, suturing, casting, and much much more. Here is the website in case you doubt me, www.ems.MHRI.org.

I may be able to do it and I certainly know why I'm doing it. It is really a bother when nurses state their education prepared them to work in the ED or various ICU's. It didn't. Experience is what got you there.

This issue has nothing to do with patient care or education. It is just a defense mechanism. I have not read a single legitament reason why paramedics wouldn't work well in the ED. Sorry, but paramedics as techs is an insult. Paramedics, mostly work under a delegated practice. Well, since paramedics can do just about anything their medical director stipulates they can is pretty resourceful. After all, PA's function the same way. I guess according to nursing, PA's are below them because they work under a doctors license also.

Let's all get into 2006 and realize that what we don't know, can make us sound ridiculous.

I have great respect for paramedics. However, just because you've had quite a bit of field experience and have done intubations and maybe the occasional needle decompression doesnt make you qualified to be an RN. Sure, RN's in the acute setting do many things you might be comfortable with. However, you havent had the extensive RN rotations in all the specialties such as OB, Peds, ICU, Psychiatric etc. I DO beleive that paramedics as well as LPNs with work experience should be able to perform some sort of "fast track" to become an RN but the suggestion that you dont need additional education to perform RN duties is just ludicrous. RN's are patient advocates as well as dopamine titraters. They are psychosocial interpreters as well as art line monitors.

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I have great respect for paramedics. However, just because you've had quite a bit of field experience and have done intubations and maybe the occasional needle decompression doesnt make you qualified to be an RN. Sure, RN's in the acute setting do many things you might be comfortable with. However, you havent had the extensive RN rotations in all the specialties such as OB, Peds, ICU, Psychiatric etc. I DO beleive that paramedics as well as LPNs with work experience should be able to perform some sort of "fast track" to become an RN but the suggestion that you dont need additional education to perform RN duties is just ludicrous. RN's are patient advocates as well as dopamine titraters. They are psychosocial interpreters as well as art line monitors.

Again, this is purely informative and not negative. However, if you go to the website I posted. In my paramedic program, I logged over 1500 hours in clinical rotations every where from Pedi ED to NICU to the ICU. The occasion intubation and needle decompression. As opposed to your occasionally foley cath insertion. Please, it is all relative. Since I currently work on a critical care aircraft where we transport IABP, VADs, and Ventrics, I would say I do a little more than an occasional intubation. Paramedics are not patient advocates or psychosocial interpreters. I just transported a patient with an art line last night that I transduced to after changing to my equipment. Anything else you do, that I don't? While I am being ludicrous and all.

Please do not make assumptions.

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Specializes in Day Surgery/Infusion/ED.
I have great respect for paramedics. However, just because you've had quite a bit of field experience and have done intubations and maybe the occasional needle decompression doesnt make you qualified to be an RN. Sure, RN's in the acute setting do many things you might be comfortable with. However, you havent had the extensive RN rotations in all the specialties such as OB, Peds, ICU, Psychiatric etc. I DO beleive that paramedics as well as LPNs with work experience should be able to perform some sort of "fast track" to become an RN but the suggestion that you dont need additional education to perform RN duties is just ludicrous. RN's are patient advocates as well as dopamine titraters. They are psychosocial interpreters as well as art line monitors.

Extensive rotations? That's a bit of a stretch.

I didn't read in JDA's post that he/she thought being a paramedic qualifies him/her to be an RN. In fact, if I read JDA's post correctly, he/she has already finished nursing school.

Paramedics are highly knowledgeable members of the health care team, and they are certainly pt. advocates. The world of health care delivery doesn't begin and end with RNs. This sort of willful blindness, this inability to recognize that there are other people out there with knowledge and skill, hurts us.

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Again, this is purely informative and not negative. However, if you go to the website I posted. In my paramedic program, I logged over 1500 hours in clinical rotations every where from Pedi ED to NICU to the ICU. The occasion intubation and needle decompression. As opposed to your occasionally foley cath insertion. Please, it is all relative. Since I currently work on a critical care aircraft where we transport IABP, VADs, and Ventrics, I would say I do a little more than an occasional intubation. Paramedics are not patient advocates or psychosocial interpreters. I just transported a patient with an art line last night that I transduced to after changing to my equipment. Anything else you do, that I don't? While I am being ludicrous and all.

Please do not make assumptions.

I suggest you become a flight nurse when you graduate RN school. You'll basically be doing the same job you are now. Why become an RN anyway? You seem to be so impressed with your current job where you get to do so many exciting and impressive things. Oh wait, you probably need to actually get paid decent $$, which paramedics dont unfortunately. The worst RN job in my city pays twice what the average paramedic makes. I make 100k/year doing acute dialysis.. go figure

And if you think I'm being nasty, just recall your "foley catheter" comment. You obviously have no respect for nurses, so again, why bother to become one? oh yeah money. we dont need people like you in nursing. Hopefully for you your instructors wont pick up on this and fail you out. They dont need a good reason. Dont assume all I do is put in foley catheters, I used to work at a level 1 trauma center and I've taken shock traumas and done arterial punctures etc.. bye now

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Most of the paramedics I know are so hung up on all the technoogy stuff and skills that anything less is tedious and boring...as evidenced by the foley catheter comment. Not many paramedics jumping to put that foley in but boy let someone need intubated and they are like a pack of dogs after a ##### in heat. Nursing is an art that requires education, very strong assessment skills,and use of scientific process indiviualized to meet the needs of patients not to mention skills. A paramedic thinks of coding a patient and an RN tries to prevent it . One thing I can do that a paramedic can not is sign RN after my name

. :wakeneo:

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Where I work, paramedics are being used to function as equals to RNs and over LPNs. Their duties include but are not limited to: Taking verbal and telephone orders, administering medications, treatments and a wide variety of other duties. They are being paid $1 an hour more than RNs. They often let us nurses know that "Paramedics save 'em, nurses bath 'em". I feel that because our administrator once drove an ambulance might be one reason why so many signatures are now ending with "EMT-P" as opposed to LPN or RN.

So I guess the paramedics save people and then drive them to the hospital ICU to get a sponge bath...?

If they are being used as equal to RNs, then why do they get paid $1 more? This is really surprising to me. (Did you ask why they were being paid more, or does it not matter to you?)

To be honest, I have a hard time seeing how they can work as an RN without actually......um, being an RN. Since they do, I don't see a problem with them being paid the same as an RN, but I can't see why they would get paid more.

Why do some members of other professions feel nurses are inferior to them, but at the same time jump at the opportunity to work as one? Like many people have said we all have different roles to play and none is better than the other.

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