What do you honestly think you would have done?

babynurselsa, RN · Sep 13, 2005

Wow had not heard this story. How sad and frightening for those poor souls. I can't imagine where thse folks could go where this story won't travel.

casi, ASN, RN · Sep 13, 2005

Even the best plans fail. I don't know the whole story, so I don't know what I would have done.

It seems like things happened in New Orleans quickly, and chaotically. It may sound selfish, but when it came down to it, and I knew I couldn't save my residents, I would make them comfortable and I would try to save myself and my family. I know that sounds harsh, but it's survival. You wouldn't run into a burning building when you knew you couldn't save anyone.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2005

I fault the owners for not evacuating them. I don't fault anyone for saving their own life. Instinct is to save your own life. I would do the same.

pyxeduhst5282 · Sep 13, 2005

I can't even imagine having that happen to me....and the guilt associated if I had lived and knew the 32 other patients had died...I guess when you have done everything PHYSICALLY possible....you have to save yourself?? But that is such a HORRIBLE position to be in. So sad...that's the last way those poor people should have died...They should have evacuated....So many of the people down there should have.

What do you think of the nursing home where 32 of the patients were left to drown? If you did everything you could to save whoever you could save would you have swam to the roof once the entire home was flooded and you could not save anyone else? I really can't fault anyone for saving themselves once they have done everything they could do to save patients. What do you think you would have done?
The owners were seen shopping in Mississippi and the authorities believe they are trying to get out of the country. I hope they can be caught and prosecuted. According to one of the family members they assured the families that the patients would be fine, they had an evacuation plan in place, had buses ready and when the worse happened denied they needed an additional help. They were able to escape to the roof, get on a boat and then disappear.

CharlieRN · Sep 13, 2005

The owners are guilty of criminal neglect for not evacuating the patients but it seems that someone higher up is also guilty. The community is supposed to have a disaster plan that covers the evacuation or safe sheltering of those who are unable to care for themselves. Clearly New Orleans was grossly deficient in this. It is unrealistic to expect a major city to evacuate. Rural or relatively thinly setteled areas can be evacuated but densely inhabited areas should have local "hardened" shelters. We can't move millions of people hundreds of miles rapidly enough to keep them safe. They have to be protected close to their homes.

Hardened shelters need to be designated buildings that are large enough to shelter the community or neighborhood, have emergency supplies stockplied, have independent power and water supplies and are hardened to survive likely local disasters. In low lieing areas this means they are elevated above flood levels. Shelters in the "hurricane belt" need to be wind resistent, in tornado country they need to be under ground or in heavily reinforced buildings, in snow country they need reliable heat souces and roofs that can take heavy snow burden.

The shelter should also be the coordinating point for local health rescue and security personel. We saw that without security in the shelter, a shelter just becomes a concentration of victims. Most important it should have reliable, disaster proofed communications. Any preparation can be overwhelmed, you have to be able to call for help.

It need not be terribly expensive to provide this. Put your local neighborhood schools on a rasied earthen mound, build them strong and give them a large auditorium, cafeteria, playing field and parking area. Attach a fire station, local police station and clinic to the school. Presto! there is your hardened community shelter. Repeat as needed to provide coverage for your city. Local hospitals can also be the kernal around which you build a disaster complex. So could sports arenas, office complexes, even hotel or resorts.

JoBug · Sep 13, 2005

What do you think of the nursing home where 32 of the patients were left to drown? If you did everything you could to save whoever you could save would you have swam to the roof once the entire home was flooded and you could not save anyone else? I really can't fault anyone for saving themselves once they have done everything they could do to save patients. What do you think you would have done?
The owners were seen shopping in Mississippi and the authorities believe they are trying to get out of the country. I hope they can be caught and prosecuted. According to one of the family members they assured the families that the patients would be fine, they had an evacuation plan in place, had buses ready and when the worse happened denied they needed an additional help. They were able to escape to the roof, get on a boat and then disappear.

I can not imagine what the workers were facing, I live in Iowa, a TORNADO ZONE where I work, I KNOW I would do everything humanly possible to save all I could, but I also know that when I was no longer able to rescue anymore of my residents, I would HAVE to save myself, for my families benifit, and I truley believe that my residents and their families would want that. NOW, there is ALOT of blame to go around in this horrible tradigy, now WAY should that nursing home NOT have been evacuated PRIOR to the hurricaine hitting..some one, some day is going to answer for their HORRIBLE misjudgment in that aspect....my heart goes out to all involved.

JoBug

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 13, 2005

The owners are guilty of criminal neglect for not evacuating the patients but it seems that someone higher up is also guilty. The community is supposed to have a disaster plan that covers the evacuation or safe sheltering of those who are unable to care for themselves. Clearly New Orleans was grossly deficient in this. It is unrealistic to expect a major city to evacuate.

I 100% agree with you that New Orleans had some problems.

I live in an area where it's freely admitted by authorities that if everyone evacuated to shelters there isn't enough room for the 300,000 or so people living in evacuation zones.

HOWEVER, and this is the big however, where I judge the owners. Every nursing home and hospital is required by law to have an evacuation plan and institute it when mandated. No options. My county has literally hundreds of nursing homes (it's Florida you know) and when ordered to evacuate, they go.

While New Orleans clearly couldn't evacuate all of it's well and poor citizens, I don't believe for a minute they don't have plans for nursing homes, hospitals, etc. If not, then the mayor, governor, and entire city council needs to go to jail.

Annony RN · Sep 13, 2005

I was going to post this to another thread a day or two ago, had trouble creating a new user name and now cannot find that post but, since you asked-

I gave it a lot of thought during the whole debate here and even before reading about the doctor at Charity I was sure that I'd save who I could, over medicate those I couldn't, and get out for my family's sake.

No good choice, in any situation I'd probably die feeling guilty.

DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN · Sep 13, 2005

I'm relieved to know that I'm thinking like the rest of you. I think ever faced with that situation, fire vs flood or whatever, I think I would suffer alot of guilt but you can only do what you can and then it's time to get out. It's such a sad sad situation. The owners will be prosecuted if they can catch them. Not for saving themselves but for running. Also probably for lying about having everything under control and having a plan in process. I hope they can't rest wherever they end up. They are despicable!

devi, ADN, BSN · Sep 13, 2005

I just keep imagining how it would have felt for the last employee left there alone with the remaining residents after all the others had one by one left to evacuate with their families. At least the ones who left first could soothe their consciences with reassurances that they didn't leave them completely alone. But can you imagine realizing you are the absolute last one left?

Chad_KY_SRNA · Sep 13, 2005

Well, personally I would try to save as many lives as I could and then I would save myself. My partner stopped to pick up a friend at the nursing home where he used to work and while he was there the parking lot began to flood, well then the water started to get into the facility, of course despite having quit working at this facility, he helped evacuate the residents there, all survived. If it was to the point where we either drown or get ourselves out we are getting the heck out. I would feel bad but not as bad as if I were dead.