What happens to your integrity when you go into management?

will7678 · Jul 1, 2004

I'm just a nursing student now but my full time job while in school is in management so I can understand what some nursing managers may be going through. There have been many times when someone working under me has brought up the same concerns that I had just recently been talking with upper management about. While I am talking with upper management I may be dead set against a policy and paasionate about it being removed. But once I am back on the floor I need to support that rule as if it was my idea. Morale may already be low and my joining in on the complaining in a visible fashion will just make it louder. If you are mad at management for not advocating patient or nurse rights then get involved yourself. Complaining about the situation and doing nothing to change it will only make matters worse and lower morale. You never know, the manager you are upset about not caring about the floor nurses may be their biggest advocate when behind closed doors and able to speak freely to upper management. The manager that lets the floor stay one person short on a busy day may have had to fight the powers that be to get the staffing above three people short.

Rapheal · Jul 1, 2004

I know that the bottom line is money. But since some of the posters in management are able to pitch in and help out- why can't other managers do the same? Seems to me that some people get into management to avoid patient care.

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 1, 2004

I know that the bottom line is money. But since some of the posters in management are able to pitch in and help out- why can't other managers do the same? Seems to me that some people get into management to avoid patient care.

Some managers have "smaller jobs" than others -- or more support people helping them -- and therefore have time to help out with clinical care. Perhaps they have a smaller, less complex unit to manage ... or they have secretarial help ... or they have other people managing the budget ... etc. etc. etc. Other managers already work 50 hours per week doing manager stuff because, as managers, they have huge jobs and therefore do not have extra time to be out on the floor doing patient care. All manager roles are not exactly the same.

Also, as a previous poster suggested, the manager who is at a meeting and therefore unavailable to help with patient care might be at a meeting advocating for his/her staff and making things better for them in the long run. The manager who is doing patient care may be neglecting his/her work and NOT present at the discussions in which important decisions are made.

Some managers spend time in patient care as a way to avoid the really tough aspects of the manager role. It keeps them popular with their staffs, helps them feel good about themselves and about nursing -- but the real problems never get solved because they were too busy being a substitute staff nurse to actually work on long-term solutions to the existing problems.

Now ... I'm not saying that is always true. But it is true some of the time. I've known managers like that -- popular, but minimally ineffective. Unfortunately, some (but not all) staff nurse equate "substitute staff nurse" with "good manager" which makes it a lot harder for the average manager to do a good job.

llg

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 1, 2004

I know that the bottom line is money. But since some of the posters in management are able to pitch in and help out- why can't other managers do the same? Seems to me that some people get into management to avoid patient care.

Some managers have "smaller jobs" than others -- or more support people helping them -- and therefore have time to help out with clinical care. Perhaps they have a smaller, less complex unit to manage ... or they have secretarial help ... or they have other people managing the budget ... etc. etc. etc. Other managers already work 50 hours per week doing manager stuff because, as managers, they have huge jobs and therefore do not have extra time to be out on the floor doing patient care. All manager roles are not exactly the same.

Also, as a previous poster suggested, the manager who is at a meeting and therefore unavailable to help with patient care might be at a meeting advocating for his/her staff and making things better for them in the long run. The manager who is doing patient care may be neglecting his/her work and NOT present at the discussions in which important decisions are made.

Some managers spend time in patient care as a way to avoid the really tough aspects of the manager role. It keeps them popular with their staffs, helps them feel good about themselves and about nursing -- but the real problems never get solved because they were too busy being a substitute staff nurse to actually work on long-term solutions to the existing problems.

Now ... I'm not saying that is always true. But it is true some of the time. I've known managers like that -- popular, but minimally ineffective. Unfortunately, some (but not all) staff nurse equate "substitute staff nurse" with "good manager" which makes it a lot harder for the average manager to do a good job.

llg

donmomofnine · Jul 1, 2004

WOW! I skimmed through this topic and a lot of it seems cranky to me. I am a new DON and I am soley in the job so that I can have a bigger impact on how residents and staff are treated. When I was a med nurse, I was at the mercy of management. When I was a supervisor, I was at the mercy of my DON. There were many things I thought should be different, problems I brought to her attention and I was banging my head against the wall. Now I can make a difference, although (even in not for profit) money will always be the bottom line.

I have total integrity and I plan to keep it. That has never been a problem in any job I have had.

donmomofnine · Jul 1, 2004

WOW! I skimmed through this topic and a lot of it seems cranky to me. I am a new DON and I am soley in the job so that I can have a bigger impact on how residents and staff are treated. When I was a med nurse, I was at the mercy of management. When I was a supervisor, I was at the mercy of my DON. There were many things I thought should be different, problems I brought to her attention and I was banging my head against the wall. Now I can make a difference, although (even in not for profit) money will always be the bottom line.

I have total integrity and I plan to keep it. That has never been a problem in any job I have had.

KSJ · Jul 12, 2004

Okay, I feel what ya'll are saying. I am a CNS that just took a clinical manager role. It is my desire to improve bedside nursing care based on evidence based paractice. I have come to the organization as an outsider. That in it self has created a hugh barrier. Many of the practices I see could be improved upon. How can I make changes in practice that promote healthy work enviornments? Let me add the nurse manager is one of those with out a backbone, scruples or anything of the sort?

probable cause · Jul 19, 2004

Alright, that's enough. Knock off the whining and get back to work.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jul 20, 2004

Alright, that's enough. Knock off the whining and get back to work.

I rest my case

susanna · Jul 20, 2004

The stresses of management bring out the hidden side of people. and then there is the perspective changes. Things I used to hate as a staff nurse I now understnad differently and have to enforce it.

What kind of things?

One of the most common comments I hear from people new to leadership positions is, "I never knew all this went on before!"

All of what?

I'd like to know for the sake of my future sanity as a staff nurse.

ClipboardNurse · Jul 22, 2004

I've been a nurse a long long time and have worked in a variety of roles, now a CNS for the past 10 years. My question is for all those nurses who have chosen administration/management roles. I ask: What happened to your integrity? your sense of what is right? Where is your backbone? Have you all forgotten why you went into nursing in the first place?

ClipboardNurse · Jul 22, 2004

WOW! I skimmed through this topic and a lot of it seems cranky to me. I am a new DON and I am soley in the job so that I can have a bigger impact on how residents and staff are treated. When I was a med nurse, I was at the mercy of management. When I was a supervisor, I was at the mercy of my DON. There were many things I thought should be different, problems I brought to her attention and I was banging my head against the wall. Now I can make a difference, although (even in not for profit) money will always be the bottom line.
I have total integrity and I plan to keep it. That has never been a problem in any job I have had.

Best wishes.