What do you consider to be nursing's biggest setback?

sunflrz321 · May 12, 2011

The toxic negative nurses-eat-their-young culture. Basically the way we treat one another (that often stems from the way we have been treated since day 1 as a nurse, or even day 1 in nursing school for some).

The way our hospitals will so often blame a nurse and throw her under the bus rather than take responsibility for a systemic problem.

Call it what you want, bullying, lateral violence, etc, it is rampant.

Everybody has their theories on why this happens: too much estrogen in the field, too many people promoted to management who have great clinical skills but no managerial or people skills, not enough clinical hours/experience in nursing school, lack of a unified nursing voice, the fact that we tolerate it, etc. I think there's a bit of truth to all of those things.

What I can tell you is that when I made the jump from bedside care to case management for a managed care corporation, I didn't do it because I was tired of the pace, the patients, the families, the intensity of the work, etc. I did it because I needed a break from the culture, and the people who perpetuated that culture. And sure enough, you don't find that same toxic culture in a workplace with a good mix of both genders, where people are promoted for their management skills, and where staff know what to expect from their schedules, and don't have to fight between themselves to get days off. So far, the grass IS greener on the other side (out of the hospital).

Ruby Vee, BSN · May 12, 2011

just wondering what some of you thought might be a big setback in the nursing industry? what is holding it back from being something that it may not be. look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

press-gainey.

wooh, BSN, RN · May 12, 2011

press-gainey.

amen.

Ruby Vee, BSN · May 12, 2011

the bunch of females in it!

that includes you, i'm sure. and all of your friends? or just all of the females who aren't you?

wishiwereanurse, BSN, RN · May 12, 2011

nursing's biggest setback is nursing

carolmaccas66, BSN, RN · May 12, 2011

that includes you, i'm sure. and all of your friends? or just all of the females who aren't you?

the above response is one of nursings biggest setbacks in the form of a 'put you down because i know more, and have more experience' attitude.

an innocent question for example is asked on this site. one then encounters some good, mature, respectful arguments, then there are the 'longest' and 'oldest' posters who have to be rude, argumentative - because they are always right apparently - and discouraging. nursing will never, ever grow as a profession if older nurses look down on younger people (or older, newer nurses), and don't treat them with respect. if one doesn't have 20+ years of experience, blah blah, one is told basically on here that 'they don't know anything because you have only been a rn for 2 years' or whatever other lame excuse is used on here.

i post a thread for which i thought was an interesting discussion, one which i was curious about. i got some good and thoughtful replies, and i've encountered interesting people on an. but i'm appalled by the amount of rudeness that is allowed on this board and in the nursing proefession in particular. it's rude, immature and unnecessary, and has the quality of a 'i'm one up more than you' attitude.

i for one probably won't post much on here anymore, as these attitudes towards newer nurses needing help and the blatant rudeness on here - which the moderators rarely do anything about, especially with longer-term posters who get away with it - greatly disappoints me. i thought the goal of an, and nursing blogs, was for us to help each other and to show a higher level of maturity (as well as venting). seems not.

thanks to all for the great replies i've received in the past, and for the friends i have made on here.

this has been a disappointing experience of the first nursing blog i have been a part of. and the last.

nursemike, ASN, RN · May 12, 2011

The above response is one of nursings BIGGEST setbacks in the form of a 'put you down because I know more, and have more experience' attitude.
An innocent question for example is asked on this site. One then encounters some good, mature, respectful arguments, then there are the 'longest' and 'oldest' posters who have to be rude, argumentative - because they are always right apparently - and discouraging. Nursing will never, ever grow as a profession if older nurses look down on younger people (or older, newer nurses), and don't treat them with respect. If one doesn't have 20+ years of experience, blah blah, one is told basically on here that 'they don't know anything because you have only been a RN for 2 years' or whatever other lame excuse is used on here.
I post a thread for which I thought was an interesting discussion, one which I was curious about. I got some good and thoughtful replies, and I've encountered interesting people on AN. But I'm appalled by the amount of rudeness that is allowed on this board and in the nursing proefession in particular. It's rude, immature and unnecessary, and has the quality of a 'I'm one up more than you' attitude.
I for one probably won't post much on here anymore, as these attitudes towards newer nurses needing help and the blatant rudeness on here - which the moderators rarely do anything about, especially with longer-term posters who get away with it - greatly disappoints me. I thought the goal of AN, and nursing blogs, was for us to help each other and to show a higher level of maturity (as well as venting). Seems not.
Thanks to all for the great replies I've received in the past, and for the friends I have made on here.
This has been a disappointing experience of the first nursing blog I have been a part of. And the last.

I agree there are times when the atmosphere could be more temperate, but I'm not sure the post you quoted is an example. One could argue that it was a response to a bigoted remark and rightfully challenged it. Of course, one could also observe that some posters--not naming any names--can be a bit gruff, at times. Frankly, I have to admit, such gruffness can be annoying or amusing, largely depending with how much I agree with the point it makes. After a time, assertions that women are what's wrong with nursing get to seeming a lot like "nursing eat their young." To me, they're just slogans that can be used to take the place of thought. Most of the nurses on my floor are women. None of them are perfect, but I see nearly all of them as part of the solution, not part of the problem. And it does offend me a bit to see them put down for being female. The best nurse I ever saw, my mentor and inspiration, was a middle aged white woman. When she clocked in, every patient on the floor's chances of living through the night improved. Speaking from personal experience, every hapless newbie's chances of not killing somebody improved. And while she's sadly gone, others remain who carry on that tradition very well.

Truth be told, I'd like to believe nursing got a little better, a little stronger, when I got pinned. I've come a way in six years, and in six more my optimism might prove justified. Truth be told, there have been moments when my y chromosome has given me a bit of an advantage over some of my peers. And I think the other guys on my floor bring useful qualities to the mix. But there aren't nearly enough of us to staff a single shift. If women are really the problem, we're screwed.

I can't deny that some nurses at some times are part of the problem. None of us are saints, and a few here and there barely qualify as people. But I can't think of any entire class of people who are dragging us down. Not guys, not gals, not oldtimers, not newbies. A case can be made, and has, that underprepared newbies are a problem, but a blanket condemnation of all newbies would include many who are well-prepared and sometimes gifted nurses. (Personally, I'd argue that even those who seem as lost as I was are as much an opportunity as a problem.

So I'd like to revise my previous answer. I think perhaps the biggest setback in nursing is that so many people, including some nurses, think nurses are the biggest setback in nursing. And I would definitely include the notion that 90-some percent of us are a problem by their mere gender. I truly,truly, truly believe that we all need to take a deep breath once in awhile and recognize that the vast majority of us are doing a pretty good job, in spite of all the obstacles. When you see a person in a nurse's uniform, if your first thought is, there's a caring, competent professional I can trust, most of the time, you'll be right, and we'll all be taking a huge step toward unity. But if we can't respect each other, if we can't presume that the simple fact of holding a nursing license speaks well of someone until given a reason to doubt it, we may just be doomed.

CompleteUnknown · May 12, 2011

Have to agree with you there Mike, I don't think the fact that the majority of nurses are women has much to do with anything. Men and women are way more alike than they're different.

texashyles · May 12, 2011

1. Spending more hours charting than with the patients.

2. Unproductive competition among nurses (although I appreciate healthy competition where we inspire each other to better ourselves individually and professionally).

jrbl77, RN · May 12, 2011

I see the biggest setback in nursing as being the loss of hands on care. The time allowed to actually hold a pts hand, sit and talk with them, listen to their stories and their problems. The time has been lost to legnthy and involved documentation, forms and more forms. I work in a small hospital and most of our pts are very elderly. It is not unusual to have a pt at least 80. Staffing is down to the bare bones, but doesn't take into consideration the time needed to feed a patient for instance. On a 12 hr day shift, the pts eat 3 times. Yes, I can eat my food in 5 mins, no problem, but then I have no problems with swallowing and am not cognitvly impaired. The time involved in feeding just 1 pt 3 meals is at least 30- 45 mins. Often we have more than 1 pt that needs to be fed. I can also add that often they are on isolation and add the time involved to garb up to that. The time involved in just basic care ie bathroom trips, is great, but there are only some many hours in a day. Time allowed for hands on care is getting to be less and less. I am truly concerned about my own care as I grow older. Who will there be to feed me and help me to the bathroom?

gardengal1, ASN, RN · May 12, 2011

Not having the TIME to spend TIME with my patients due to all the other "stuff" we have to do in addition to the unsafe staffing loads.

cdsga · May 13, 2011

All I know there is SO much frustration in this thread. How we get the people we need to hear us and allow a positive difference to be made is the issue now. It's a fine line between complaining to the wind and making an argument that is factual and without much emotion. Soo many studies have been done that state the very things that we are stating here. When will changes be put into action? Nursing is a very fine profession-if it weren't I wouldn't have stayed in it for 33 years. I am hopeful and resilient and hopefully other nurses here will keep the hope of positivity in our profession and fight for positive improvements in our practice. It takes all of us. Stay unified !