Wearing a mask

livingthedream77 · Aug 29, 2014

All of the hospitals in my area make you wear a mask if you don't get the shot, when the CDC says the number of cases in the area is at whatever arbitrary number is considered 'high'. At the local college, nursing students are forced to get the shot or are thrown out of the program.

I would like to hear some other nurses opinions about these statements, if you agree/disagree hopefully without causing mayhem and tornadoes and the poles switching. :yes: Want to hear other professionals' ideas.

Do you Agree/disagree with these statements:

--the shot does not guarantee that you will not get the flu

--even if you do get the shot, and do not become sick yourself, you are capable of passing the infection through dirty hands, scrubs, etc.

--due to the above, the statement that if you don't get the shot you are putting your pts at a higher risk is fallacious

--even if you get the shot, you are told to wear a mask around someone who is ill

--everyone should really wear a mask, vaccinated or not, if you are in a setting such as LTC, hospital, as there is a higher % of people who are infected

--hand washing and masks are the best preventatives

--companies manufacture vaccines based on their best guess months ahead of time which strains will be prevalent; they may or may not guess correctly

--some hospitals are mandating employees to get the shot, and not giving the option of masks instead; requiring this as a condition of ongoing employment is not ethical, as everyone should have a say in their own healthcare without threat of dismissal

--why not mandate MMR, tDAP, varicella, HPV, TB, anthrax, and every other available vaccine if flu is mandated

--if we are to follow 'droplet' precautions around flu, why are gowns not required as well as masks for those that are unvaccinated

--what reason could there be for not holding physicians to the same standard

Thanks!

allnurses Guide · Aug 31, 2014

All of the hospitals in my area make you wear a mask if you don't get the shot, when the CDC says the number of cases in the area is at whatever arbitrary number is considered 'high'. At the local college, nursing students are forced to get the shot or are thrown out of the program.
I would like to hear some other nurses opinions about these statements, if you agree/disagree hopefully without causing mayhem and tornadoes and the poles switching. Want to hear other professionals' ideas.
Do you Agree/disagree with these statements:
--the shot does not guarantee that you will not get the flu
--even if you do get the shot, and do not become sick yourself, you are capable of passing the infection through dirty hands, scrubs, etc.
--due to the above, the statement that if you don't get the shot you are putting your pts at a higher risk is fallacious
--even if you get the shot, you are told to wear a mask around someone who is ill
--everyone should really wear a mask, vaccinated or not, if you are in a setting such as LTC, hospital, as there is a higher % of people who are infected
--hand washing and masks are the best preventatives
--companies manufacture vaccines based on their best guess months ahead of time which strains will be prevalent; they may or may not guess correctly
--some hospitals are mandating employees to get the shot, and not giving the option of masks instead; requiring this as a condition of ongoing employment is not ethical, as everyone should have a say in their own healthcare without threat of dismissal
--why not mandate MMR, tDAP, varicella, HPV, TB, anthrax, and every other available vaccine if flu is mandated
--if we are to follow 'droplet' precautions around flu, why are gowns not required as well as masks for those that are unvaccinated
--what reason could there be for not holding physicians to the same standard
Thanks!

Well we can tell where your bias lies from the questions/statements that you posted. I would say you are ill informed on the subject just from your posting, and there are numerous posting on this subject already.

1. There is very little in life that is 100% effective. You wear seatbelt, but does that mean it will save someones life every time they are in a crash?.

2. The number one way that influenza is spread is by droplets by infected persons, and the number one proven way to prevent the getting influenza (short of living in alone in an isolation chamber) is by getting the influenza vaccine.

3. There are studies that have shown lower mortality rates in healthcare facilities where the healthcare workers had very high percentage of flu vaccination compliance compared to similar facilities without high flu vaccination rates. The flu vaccine saves lives. That is a proven fact.

4. Masks are only somewhat effective measure to prevent the spread of infections, and depends on if the mask is worn properly, changed regularly, and if the right type of mask for that type of infection. Most people do not wear masks appropriately or change them often enough. Similarly, hand washing is always a good preventive measure to prevent the disease, but when the primary mode of transmission is by droplets then you can wash your hands all day long and still not appreciable difference if don't first get the flu vaccine.

5. [h=3]"How are the viruses selected to make flu vaccine?[/h]The influenza (flu) viruses selected for inclusion in the seasonal flu vaccines are updated each year based on which influenza virus strains are circulating, how they are spreading, and how well current vaccine strains protect against newly identified strains. Currently, 130 national influenza centers in 101 countries conduct year-round surveillance for influenza and study influenza disease trends. These laboratories also send influenza viruses to the five World Health Organization (WHO) Collaborating Centers for Reference and Research on Influenza located in Atlanta, Georgia, USA (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, CDC); London, United Kingdom (National Institute for Medical Research); Melbourne, Australia (Victoria Infectious Diseases Reference Laboratory); Tokyo, Japan (National Institute for Infectious Diseases); and Beijing, China (National Institute for Viral Disease Control and Prevention) for additional analyses.

The seasonal flu vaccine is a trivalent vaccine (a three component vaccine) with each component selected to protect against one of the three main groups of influenza viruses circulating in humans. (Last year's 2009 H1N1 vaccine was made in response to the pandemic first recognized in April 2009. Unlike seasonal flu vaccines, the pandemic vaccine protected against only one flu virus strain, the 2009 H1N1 virus.)

The influenza viruses in the seasonal flu vaccine are selected each year based on surveillance-based forecasts about what viruses are most likely to cause illness in the coming season. WHO recommends specific vaccine viruses for inclusion in influenza vaccines, but then each individual country makes their own decision for which strains should be included in influenza vaccines licensed in their country. In the United States, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) determines which vaccine viruses will be used in U.S.—licensed vaccines."

It is insulting to think that people that spent an average of 11+ years in college earning their PhDs in microbiology, immunology, virology, etc are just sitting around guessing at what to put in this years influenza vaccine. This is hard science based on proven research, and just because someone doesn't understand the science is no reason to belittle it or these scientists work.

6. The top two ethical principles is beneficence and nonmaleficence. When it is proven that influenza vaccinations can decrease mortality in patients how can a nurse claim it is ethical not to get the flu vaccine..? Which ethical principle are you suggesting is being broken by mandating healthcare workers receive the influenza vaccine.

7. Common communicable diseases that are vaccine preventable should require HCWs to be vaccinated against. Thankfully, nursing students are required to have these vaccines during school before clinicals.

8. Droplets mode of transmission is spread from one person to respiratory passages on another person, so unless someone is planning on rubbing their containmented clothes all over the face of patients. I think in most situations it is safe to say that gowns shouldn't be required in most cases. This isn't to mention HCWs shouldn't practice basic hygiene by keeping their clothes/scrubs clean and wash them after every shift.

9. Physicians are held to the same standards when working at healthcare facilities. Joint commission holds no differences between direct care HCWs when it comes to infection control, if the hospital decides to let the physicians slide on immunizations or wearing masks then they are risking their accreditation.

livingthedream77 · Aug 31, 2014

"Well we can tell where your bias lies from the questions/statements that you posted. I would say you are ill informed on the subject just from your posting, and there are numerous posting on this subject already."

Stopped reading after this sentence. Didn't ask for assumptions of bias or insults. Thanks anyway.

allnurses Guide · Aug 31, 2014

"Well we can tell where your bias lies from the questions/statements that you posted. I would say you are ill informed on the subject just from your posting, and there are numerous posting on this subject already."
Stopped reading after this sentence. Didn't ask for assumptions of bias or insults. Thanks anyway.

No one asked for you to start up a biased thread on here based on ignorant assumptions either. It is too bad you have neither taken the time to look at scientific peer reviewed research on this subject and/or the old threads in this forum that have beat this subject to death already.

livingthedream77 · Sep 1, 2014

More insults. More assumptions. The hostility is palpable. Not professional, it's embarrassing. Now stop. Just stop. Thank you.

RNIBCLC · Sep 1, 2014

More insults. More assumptions. The hostility is palpable. Not professional, it's embarrassing. Now stop. Just stop. Thank you.

You knew when you started this thread that this would probably happen. Your indignation is silly.

livingthedream77 · Sep 1, 2014

No, the attacks are silly. Very junior high. That's what the ignore user function is for I suppose.

RNIBCLC · Sep 1, 2014

You have not been attacked. You have received responses to your post that do not share your view that's all.

morte, LPN, LVN · Sep 1, 2014

the OP certainly was attacked! and the attacker is showing his/her bias, very strongly.

You have not been attacked. You have received responses to your post that do not share your view that's all.

allnurses Guide · Sep 1, 2014

More insults. More assumptions. The hostility is palpable. Not professional, it's embarrassing. Now stop. Just stop. Thank you.

Anti Vaccine people are dangerous as has been shown with recent vaccine preventable outbreaks throughout the U.S., so the chances of me no longer commenting are pretty much zero.

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · Sep 1, 2014

--why not mandate MMR, tDAP, varicella, HPV, TB, anthrax, and every other available vaccine if flu is mandated
Thanks!

Where I work they do mandate MMR, tDAP, & varicella. We have to be TB screened yearly, I've had BCG, but I wouldn't recommend it (and neither do American Public Health officials), anthrax is extremely rare (numbers & risk come nowhere near to the other diseases you mentioned) and I avoid sexual contact with my patients. I think I covered all the diseases you mentioned on that one point.

Think I'll leave the other points to people with real computers (not gonna delve further with my cell phone).

But now I'll get to follow this thread easily!!