Was this really routine? On partial birth abortions

Specialties Ob/Gyn

Published

Testimony of Jill L. Stanek, RN

Hearing on H.R. 4292, the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act of 2000"

July 20, 2000

I am a Registered Nurse who has worked in the Labor & Delivery Department at Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn, Illinois, for the past five years. Christ Hospital performs abortions on women in their second or even third trimesters of pregnancy. Sometimes the babies being aborted are healthy, and sometimes they are not.

The method of abortion that Christ Hospital uses is called "induced labor abortion," also now known as "live birth abortion." This type of abortion can be performed different ways, but the goal always is to cause a pregnant woman's cervix to open so that she will deliver a premature baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward. The way that induced abortion is most often executed at my hospital is by the physician inserting a medication called Cytotec into the birth canal close to the cervix. Cytotec irritates the cervix and stimulates it to open. When this occurs, the small, preterm baby drops out of the uterus, oftentimes alive. It is not uncommon for one of these live aborted babies to linger for an hour or two or even longer. One of them once lived for almost eight hours.

In the event that a baby is aborted alive, he or she receives no medical assessments or care but is only given what my hospital calls "comfort care." "Comfort care" is defined as keeping the baby warm in a blanket until he or she dies, although even this minimal compassion is not always provided. It is not required that these babies be held during their short lives.

One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down's Syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about ½ pound, and was about 10 inches long. He was too weak to move very much, expending any energy he had trying to breathe. Toward the end he was so quiet that I couldn't tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our dead patients are taken.

Other co-workers have told me many upsetting stories about live aborted babies whom they have cared for. I was told about an aborted baby who was supposed to have Spina bifida but was delivered with an intact spine. Another nurse is haunted by the memory of an aborted baby who came out weighing much more than expected ~ almost two pounds. She is haunted because she doesn't know if she made a mistake by not getting that baby medical help. A Support Associate told me about a live aborted baby who was left to die on the counter of the Soiled Utility Room wrapped in a disposable towel. This baby was accidentally thrown into the garbage, and when they later were going through the trash to find the baby, the baby fell out of the towel and on to the floor.

I was recently told about a situation by a nurse who said, "I can't stop thinking about it." She had a patient who was 23+ weeks pregnant, and it did not look as if her baby would be able to continue to live inside of her. The baby was healthy and had up to a 39% chance of survival, according to national statistics. But the patient chose to abort. The baby was born alive. If the mother had wanted everything done for her baby, there would have been a neonatologist, pediatric resident, neonatal nurse, and respiratory therapist present for the delivery, and the baby would have been taken to our Neonatal Intensive Care Unit for specialized care. Instead, the only personnel present for this delivery were an obstetrical resident and my co-worker. After delivery the baby, who showed early signs of thriving, was merely wrapped in a blanket and kept in the Labor & Delivery Department until she died 2-1/2 hours later.

Something is very wrong with a legal system that says doctors are mandated to pronounce babies dead but are not mandated to assess babies for life and chances of survival. In other words, our laws currently say that babies have no rights to medical oversight until they are dead. We look the other way and pretend that these babies aren't human while they're alive but human only after they are dead. We issue these babies both birth and death certificates, but it is really only the death certificate that matters. No other children in America are medically abandoned like this.

Abortion is a cancer that is literally killing America. It is killing our children while it is killing our consciences. It began when we took God out of our decision-making and proclaimed that the little beings growing inside of women were "products of conception" and not little girls and little boys. Who should be surprised that we keep pushing the envelope so that now we are aborting these "products of conception" alive? I even work at a hospital named "Christ" that does this very thing! It is beyond me to comprehend that we're doing what we're doing now, and so I can't even imagine what horrible ways we will think of next to torture our children. Please help put an end to this by proclaiming infants as American human being homo sapiens with the same legal and medical rights that you and I big people have. Thank you.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/stan0720.htm

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Originally posted by stevielynn

Hitler and Abortion

When the Nazis came to power in 1933 one of the first acts Hitler did was to legalize abortion. By 1935 Germany with 65 million people was the place where over 500,000 abortions were being performed each year. Although Hitler and his government encourged Aryan women to produce a lot of children, he left the matter of abortion and all its facets in the hands of a decidely pro- abortion medical establishment. Even in the midst of Nazi propaganda aimed at increasing the Aryan population, scores of Aryan women still chose to abort their unborn children. The medical publication Deutsches Aerzleblatt reported the abortions in Germany each year reached a half-million.

I hardly think Hitler should be used as a role model for anyone.

steph

The problem Stevie, that Hitler did not "legalize" abortion. He mandated by law in 1934, the abortion of the "unfit" (Downs syndrome, mental ill, the socalled "useless eaters, etc.) ONLY, BUT HE MANDATED THE DEATH PENALTY for all others that had abortions. And the medical establishment was hardly pro abortion as some of them got sentenced to death for performing this act.

While some Nazi MDs may have been proabortion for designated groups, do not taint the while German medical profession with the same brush (including many Jewish former MDs - as Hitler disavowed their certification as MDs, also by law)

While Aryan women did choose abortion illegally (as many women across the world do, despite serious risks to their health, life and prosecution), they took the risk of being jailed/killed and the practitioner took the risk of death. In addition, if they miscarried, the MD was required to report it to the government and risk the woman being accused/punished/being killed for abortion. MDs were encouraged to report abortion, as otherwise they might face the death penalty, if they were suspected of it or of covering it up.

Though having already strengthened the penalties against nonmandated abortions in 1934, he actually formed a Bureau to investigate ILLEGAL( all non mandated) abortions in 1936.

That hardly sounds like "Legalized Abortion" to me.

While he ignored civil liberties in the conquered areas, and the camps, he still banned widespread abortion in the German population)

(information from the US Holocaust Museum - please feel free to visit it sometime)

PS. As this country has ocasionally ignored civil liberties in the areas/enemies that it has recently fought with, what are we to make of it. And until the late 70's, several states in this country sterilized prostitutes, orphan children, "wayward" girls, and at times unmarried mothers/foreign mothers - without their consent, mandated by law, and without their knowledge. It sounds to me like a few people/legislators/ politicians here have already immulated a few dictators.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Originally posted by Owney

When we talk about my son's sex education, you may not be aware that he was potty trained and taught how to walk and talk by his FATHER--yup ladies and gentlemen, I am MALE. I would gladly give my daughter (if I had one) the same gifts.

What makes my son so special to me is that when we first found out we were going to be parents it was 1971. Abortion was becoming a real option and the thought did cross my mind. As soon as I saw how thrilled she was at the good news I abandonded the thought.

And did you discuss how you would handle the issue of unexpected parenthood BEFORE doing things that might result in conception. As birth control was kind of hit or miss in the late sixties, had ya'll already covered how the situation would be handled?

I mean, my SO knows that I would refuse an abortion, because I believe that it is wrong, and he knows that he would be facing Fatherhood, that has been made clear.

Yup,

Bush has the ring now, but it's starting to look like he's gonna be a "one term wonder" just like his daddy!

I just want to know when enough is enough...we have become a throw away society which along the way most have lost their own personal responsibility...it is always someone's else's fault...crazy law suits...no one wants to accept responsibility for their actions.

We had a patient come in 2 weekends ago who had gone to a doctor in the Hyde park area of Tampa for a late term abortion (he does them till 28 weeks). The reason it was a late term??? She could not make up her mind on what to do, so finally at 23 weeks she paid the $1700.00 cash for her abortion...it was done with potassium chloride and dig, the patient was given cytotec and told not to go farther than 15 min away from the clinic and was sent on her way. She did not listen and drove back to her house about 1 hr away. Our hospital is about 1/2 way between the clinic and her home so when she started hurting she made it as far as our hospital. When she got up to us she was 5cm and the baby was still alive. Once she realized the baby was still alive she wanted it saved!....of course we could not save a 23 weeker...the baby was born alive and died several min later. The baby did not have an anomalies...it was not conceived out of rape...she just decided she did want it anymore. She was distraught over her decision and we did a memory box for her. I know that this is a decision she will have to live with for the rest of her life, and I feel sorry for her. I think she felt duped into thinking that it would be so easy just get rid of her perceived problem with an abortion, instead I think it created many more.

We need to start having some personal responsibility. We are told do what feels right instead of what is right. I just want to know when enough is enough?

Tammy

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

It's not up for "we" to decide or tell someone what to do or not do where this is concerned, no matter how wrong or right it is. Someone can try and make someone take personal responsibility, but that doesn't mean they ever will.

Specializes in ER!.

One would think by now that I would have learned to stay out of this discussion, and I really did mean to, but a couple of things have caught my attention here.

I was surprised to see the word "militant" used in reference to pro-choice people. I have seen lots of demonstrations outside of abortion clinics. I have seen women in the throes of the most difficult decision of their lives insulted and intimidated and called names. We've all seen news reports of abortion clinics bombed and people killed, all in an attempt to tell other people, "I strongly disagree with this, so I don't think you should be able to do it." I have never seen anyone, and certainly not an angry crowd of hundreds, try to strong-arm a woman INTO an abortion. I've never heard a pro-choice individual quote Scripture with words like "disgusting" and "curse" to people whose views they disagree with. In all the years I worked OB-GYN, I never had a patient come to me and say, "I was considering keeping this baby, but I'm being forced to abort it." I did have a number of patients tell me the opposite.

As for Jesus not choosing abortion, I feel compelled to point out the obvious that anatomically, this was not possible. What I believe that Jesus would not do is sit in judgement on anyone. He was never in the habit of forcing his views on anyone. I certainly can't imagine He would be so cruel as to confront a woman in the midst of a horribly difficult decision and say, "Before you go, here's a picture of little toes and fingers. I know you've read the literature and understand the procedure, but I want you to have to look at it as well." I wasn't there, but it's well documented that during His life, Jesus had a lot more compassion than that.

Anything more I could have said has already been excellently and compassionately stated by Marie, NICU-Nurse, Elkpark, Fergus, Moondancer, kea6783, and Canoehead. No one ever knows exactly the circumstances of another person's situation. I hope with all my heart that I will never have to make a decision like this. But if I do, it's the compassion that these nurses have shown that I would need and value the most if ever I did find myself in that position.

Abortion at any stage is heartbreaking. And there are some examples of extremes that we're all familiar with, but the fact is that they don't represent the majority. And that is that sometimes, for reasons we may not all understand, the woman in question feels that it is the best choice she can make for herself and/or her baby at that time. While everyone has the right to disagree with her, no one, anywhere, for any reason, has the right to sit in judgement on her.

Climbing off my soapbox, Bible tucked safely under flame-proof suit.....

If you've not heard of anyone being strong-armed into an abortion, then you have not met some of the husbands, boyfiends, and parents out there. True, you can not walk in your patients' shoes. True, if you have a pt. who has chosen to have an ab, it is not your choice, but a legal choice that your pt. has made for whatever reasons she has made it. True, you may feel this is the wrong choice for the pt., the baby, family, etc-just as you may feel like it is the wrong choice for a woman to go back to a violent abusive home. It is in our society, the pt's choice to make at this moment. We have to live w/ it. We have to deliver kind and compassionate care to those we encounter who've had ab's.(We shouldn't have to participate in them,if we are morally opposed to them). However, if we feel it is morally or ethically wrong, the we have the right to say so (not in an intimidating direct way to the pt., but politically or by simply stating, "I am morally opposed to ab's, so I can't discuss it w/ you and this is not the forum for me to discuss those views w/ you if they try to pursue it"). I have friends who i love dearly who have had ab's. i care for them deeply but I don't agree w/ what they did. I don't pretend to and they know that, but I respect them as people because they are GOOD people, even though we disagree on this. Honestly, I feel that the abortion providers make their $ this way and often sanitize their presentation and explanation of the procedures, esp. in the case of late term ab's. I had a pt. recently who was going to Witchita for an ab at 33 weeks (fetus died before she could go and had an anomaly-so I realize that pt. was torn grieving and I have great sympathy for her) and I was so dumbfounded about this that I searched on the net and found info. about this provider and I could not believe that he will do them up to 36-37 weeks for px and emotional reasons. Sorry, IMHO, if you're having an ab at 33 weeks for emotional reasons (not fetal anomaly), the provider is just taking advantage of you and it is just WRONG WRONG WRONG. 33 weeker is a living human being no question about it.

I have worked in a hospital that did late term ab's (was exempt from participating in some aspects of the care) and I can tell you that pt's are desparate, sad, torn, often not thinking and not functioning well emotionally when they make this decision in some cases. Example, 30+ yr. old nursing tech who gets injected w/ urea and hemabate and then tells me when I am trying to restart her IV, I am scared. "I didn't realize it was going to come out "down there". It will be just like when I delivered my babies and I don't know if I can handle that." These people were supposed to be screened by the medical staff and have had their questions answered and info. provided. What happened here? I don't know. Please realize that people who are not in the so-called pro-choice group are not all radical whackos. We think and do feel for these moms and appreciate their desparate circumstances. This is America. Free speech is legal, even if what is being said is not PC or not what someone wants to hear. W/ advances in technology such as ultrasound which allows us to have more of an idea about intra-uterine life, I think we will revisit the issues surrounding late term ab's as technology continues to evolve. In OB, we seem to have a need to sanitize or bury information about late term ab's, but have no qualms about making a mom feel guilty about her choices re. breastfeeding or circs. Yes late term ab's are rare, but so are many other (IMHO) injustices like female circ's, doesn't mean they aren't important, esp. if you are expected to deal w/ them in your workplace.

I am sorry to be so long-winded. I can see why people are pro-choice, I really can. Like I said, I have dealt w/ my friends and their choices, but don't dismiss those who are not pro-choice as a bunch of empty headed Bible thumpers. There are those of us who have thought on this issue long and hard and have come to a different conclusion than you.

Imenid, I appreciate the thoughtful post. I certainly agree that informed consent is important in every aspect of medical care. Unfortunately, those seeking medical treatment are generally not functionning emotionally well when they have to make these decisions, but they still get to make them. Whether they'll regret their decision or not is for them to decide and deal with.

Specializes in ER!.

There are those of us who have thought on this issue long and hard and have come to a different conclusion than you.

My words (almost) exactly. I believe strongly in the right to disagree, and I also believe that both opinions have some validity, which I mentioned in my post, though less eloquently than you. Your point about the FOB's role in abortions is well-taken. It is an infuriating fact that this does happen, and I should have specified that in my post. Hindsight allows me to see that a more specific statement would have been that I've never seen angry crowds with placards attempt to intimidate and push a woman into an abortion.

My point was that my experience has been that pro-choice individuals are often more content to say "Live and let live, let's agree to disagree." That is just an observation on my part. I also feel strongly that in this great and heated debate, the woman at the center who is faced with the burden of a decision is often overlooked, and that she deserves our compassion. Many people feel that their religious teachings forbid making such a choice, and I'm not about messing with people's religion. It happens that my religion says that none is without sin, that whoever may be may cast the first stone, that we love the sinner while we hate the sin, and that we love each other as Christ loves us, without judgement.

undefined Hi! I was just wondering why would you work in such a place? Is there no other department that you have interest in, other than the KILLING ward. I am one of those people who are against abortion in any form for any reason.

Testimony of Jill L. Stanek, RN

Hearing on H.R. 4292, the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act of 2000"

July 20, 2000

I am a Registered Nurse who has worked in the Labor & Delivery Department at Christ Hospital in Oak Lawn, Illinois, for the past five years. Christ Hospital performs abortions on women in their second or even third trimesters of pregnancy. Sometimes the babies being aborted are healthy, and sometimes they are not.

The method of abortion that Christ Hospital uses is called "induced labor abortion," also now known as "live birth abortion." This type of abortion can be performed different ways, but the goal always is to cause a pregnant woman's cervix to open so that she will deliver a premature baby who dies during the birth process or soon afterward. The way that induced abortion is most often executed at my hospital is by the physician inserting a medication called Cytotec into the birth canal close to the cervix. Cytotec irritates the cervix and stimulates it to open. When this occurs, the small, preterm baby drops out of the uterus, oftentimes alive. It is not uncommon for one of these live aborted babies to linger for an hour or two or even longer. One of them once lived for almost eight hours.

In the event that a baby is aborted alive, he or she receives no medical assessments or care but is only given what my hospital calls "comfort care." "Comfort care" is defined as keeping the baby warm in a blanket until he or she dies, although even this minimal compassion is not always provided. It is not required that these babies be held during their short lives.

One night, a nursing co-worker was taking an aborted Down's Syndrome baby who was born alive to our Soiled Utility Room because his parents did not want to hold him, and she did not have time to hold him. I could not bear the thought of this suffering child dying alone in a Soiled Utility Room, so I cradled and rocked him for the 45 minutes that he lived. He was 21 to 22 weeks old, weighed about ½ pound, and was about 10 inches long. He was too weak to move very much, expending any energy he had trying to breathe. Toward the end he was so quiet that I couldn't tell if he was still alive unless I held him up to the light to see if his heart was still beating through his chest wall. After he was pronounced dead, we folded his little arms across his chest, wrapped him in a tiny shroud, and carried him to the hospital morgue where all of our dead patients are taken.

Other co-workers have told me many upsetting stories about live aborted babies whom they have cared for. I was told about an aborted baby who was supposed to have Spina bifida but was delivered with an intact spine. Another nurse is haunted by the memory of an aborted baby who came out weighing much more than expected ~ almost two pounds. She is haunted because she doesn't know if she made a mistake by not getting that baby medical help. A Support Associate told me about a live aborted baby who was left to die on the counter of the Soiled Utility Room wrapped in a disposable towel. This baby was accidentally thrown into the garbage, and when they later were going through the trash to find the baby, the baby fell out of the towel and on to the floor.

I was recently told about a situation by a nurse who said, "I can't stop thinking about it." She had a patient who was 23+ weeks pregnant, and it did not look as if her baby would be able to continue to live inside of her. The baby was healthy and had up to a 39% chance of survival, according to national statistics. But the patient chose to abort. The baby was born alive. If the mother had wanted everything done for her baby, there would have been a neonatologist, pediatric resident, neonatal nurse, and respiratory therapist present for the delivery, and the baby would have been taken to our Neonatal Intensive Care Unit for specialized care. Instead, the only personnel present for this delivery were an obstetrical resident and my co-worker. After delivery the baby, who showed early signs of thriving, was merely wrapped in a blanket and kept in the Labor & Delivery Department until she died 2-1/2 hours later.

Something is very wrong with a legal system that says doctors are mandated to pronounce babies dead but are not mandated to assess babies for life and chances of survival. In other words, our laws currently say that babies have no rights to medical oversight until they are dead. We look the other way and pretend that these babies aren't human while they're alive but human only after they are dead. We issue these babies both birth and death certificates, but it is really only the death certificate that matters. No other children in America are medically abandoned like this.

Abortion is a cancer that is literally killing America. It is killing our children while it is killing our consciences. It began when we took God out of our decision-making and proclaimed that the little beings growing inside of women were "products of conception" and not little girls and little boys. Who should be surprised that we keep pushing the envelope so that now we are aborting these "products of conception" alive? I even work at a hospital named "Christ" that does this very thing! It is beyond me to comprehend that we're doing what we're doing now, and so I can't even imagine what horrible ways we will think of next to torture our children. Please help put an end to this by proclaiming infants as American human being homo sapiens with the same legal and medical rights that you and I big people have. Thank you.

http://www.house.gov/judiciary/stan0720.htm

Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
undefined I was just wondering why would you work in such a place? Is there no other department that you have interest in, other than the KILLING ward.

Oh, Lord :rolleyes:

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