I need some opinions. The other night I was helping out in PACU. (I am usually in ER or Preop, but occasionally go to PACU when needed) I was asked by another nurse to transport her patient upstairs. The patient was early 30's female, very nice, always saying thanks when people helped her. We talked as I took her to her room. She had surgery for a cancer recurrence, so we talked about the surgery, her young kids, her family, etc. It was shift change, so I ended up having to wait with her for quite a while to see her nurse, the PACU nurse has to have face to face time with the receiving floor nurse. During this time we chatted some more. Then I left when her nurse got there.
The next day I was off. I was thinking about this patient and how nice she was. I called her room to check on her. I just let her know I had been thinking about her, and asked how she was doing...get well soon, etc. She seemed very appreciative.
A few days later I told her PACU nurse that I had spoken with her. This nurse was very offended with me and said I had broken HIPPAA (sp?) laws by calling the patient to check on her. Is this true? I just thought I was being nice. When I had my daughter, the L&D nurse called the next day to check on me. I know hospitals can be lonely places and thought one might like to hear a friendly voice and know someone was thinking of them.
I respectfully disagree with what you said about a nurse who respects the professional boundaries of her job as dissing "good" nurses who truly care about their patients even if they are not getting paid for it,( and I am not convinced that that is what the OP meant- BTW almost all the nurses I know end up doing proffessional work after hours and for nothing) and also with what you claim to be the "whole reason" behind HIPPA and dont think you can compare your follow up call to your students with a nurse calling a former patient just to say Hi and How are you and did my hunch pan out.
Yes it is up to the nurse on duty to give the warm fuzzy caring approach as needed and sometimes I have to take a harsher approach depending on the situation... but at the end of the day if the patient wants to keep in touch, let it be the patients prerogative. If you happen to pass the patient in the hall it is appropriate to say "HI, how are you?" but better to respect the patients privacy over the nurses curiosity.
I specifically informed all hospital personnel that under no circumstances was anyone to enter my room who was not directly assigned to care for me, but that did not stop the person who came into my room in the middle of the night, after walking past the nurses on duty (I did not hear if they directed the person to my room). My rights as a patient were violated and my rights as a vulnerable human being were violated. Why give out my phone number and out of hospital address too? Boundaries are boundaries and you do not even have to be a professional to respect them.
You did not break any HIPPAA laws. I advise that you might want to leave work at work. LTC is different than the hospital. You might think that Pt. is nice, kind whatever.
And that PT might also be needy and co-dependent. I've seen more than 1 nurse get overly
involved with "the nicest Pt" and find out how they really are. I'm sure you were just
being nice and that it; not planning on visiting her or anything. But if she put some type
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
Looking up information for your own curiosity would be in violation, however, if you are a student, and assigned to that pt and are doing your case study term paper on this particular pt, and have all the appropriate consents, permissions etc, then yes, it'd be ok.
To the one who believes nurses are uncaring because we set boundaries, I beg to differ. With setting those boundaries, and I'm speaking for myself here, I'm keeping myself from a most probable lawsuit at worst, or at least disaplinary action at my job. LIke I said in another response, most of us are speaking from experience here. If a nurse wants to find out how her/his pts are doing, then when they come in for their next shift, is when they'll find out. When a nurse is on her off time, there are other nurses, just as careing, taking care of that pt, so they aren't left alone.
Even in such a small town as I live in, a nurse can still show kindness, respect, and caring understanding to her/his pts while still leaving "work at work." And yes, we are looking out for ourselves, that is not showing an uncareing attitude, it's showing that you care enough to follow the rules, so that we may continue to come back the next shift to care for that pt.
You did not break any HIPPAA laws. I advise that you might want to leave work at work. LTC is different than the hospital. You might think that Pt. is nice, kind whatever.
And that PT might also be needy and co-dependent. I've seen more than 1 nurse get overly
involved with "the nicest Pt" and find out how they really are. I'm sure you were just
being nice and that it; not planning on visiting her or anything. But if she put some type
of sob story on you; how would you have reacted?
"the nicest Pt" and co-dependent ones can be your worst nightmare tomorrow.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
This is what I was talking about.
1 simple kind gesture has become all these totally different situations about nurses or therapists that are co-dependent, see former patients outside of the hospital, have sex with, marry, touch children, post facebook pictures or have former patients as facebook friends, some nurses former experience as a patient and her needs and wants........
None of those were the situation here.
Why not quit dealing with what others have done and just evaluate the situation by itself? That is what is being asked. Who cares about all that other stuff ( I sooo wish I could insert a more graphic word here).
This is what drives me nuts about nurses. My god! Get a grip. Not everything is a lose your license, get fired, cause a death situation.
Was HIPAA violated? No Did the patient find it intrusive? No.
The paranoia and need to make the situation a federal offense here amaze me.
And yes, I have been a nurse for 17 years.
Flame me all y'all want because I am really tough and I can certainly take it.
If the OP would have been my nurse I would have been touched and grateful.
1 simple kind gesture has become all these totally different situations about nurses or therapists that are co-dependent, see former patients outside of the hospital, have sex with, marry, touch children, post facebook pictures or have former patients as facebook friends, some nurses former experience as a patient and her needs and wants........
None of those were the situation here.
Why not quit dealing with what others have done and just evaluate the situation by itself? That is what is being asked. Who cares about all that other stuff ( I sooo wish I could insert a more graphic word here).
This is what drives me nuts about nurses. My god! Get a grip. Not everything is a lose your license, get fired, cause a death situation.
Was HIPAA violated? No Did the patient find it intrusive? No.
The paranoia and need to make the situation a federal offense here amaze me.
And yes, I have been a nurse for 17 years.
Flame me all y'all want because I am really tough and I can certainly take it.
If the OP would have been my nurse I would have been touched and grateful.
"Flame me all y'all want because I am really tough and I can certainly take it." Obviously you are looking for a fight not a discussion. This is not a yes or no question but one which asked for a discussion, hence this discussion page. You do not know whether or not HIPAA laws were violated and if the patient found it intrusive. It is only your uninformed opinion. Is it better to be on the side of caution or to have to explain one's action to one's employer, the BON, or worst the District Attorney? I urge nurses to be on the side of caution rather than having to hide in the thicket of the law. We all know that laws are always vague and so are HIPAA laws and one's future depends on who is interpreting the laws. Discussion is good and we have not gone outside the box. HELP PROTECT OUR NURSES!
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I know I'm coming in late and I've only read the OP and a few of the responses, but no, you did not violate HIPAA by talking directly to the patient.
As an L&D nurse, I know that I will sometimes really bond with my patients, and on a few occasions I have come in on my day off to say hello and see how she's doing. I remember one case, I labored her through a fetal demise. She told me at the end of my shift that I helped make a horrible, painful experience to be almost pleasant. To me, that was the ultimate compliment. I came in the next day to check on her and bring her a tin of Altoids (helps dry up milk).
IMO, what you did was not inappropriate. I think it shows a very caring and kind nature, which is sometimes lacking in our profession.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
Gusblom,
It is NOT a HIPAA violation.
And my point is not to argue, but to make the point that all those other situations are not useful as the discussion should be limited to the situation posted by the OP. That is what she is asking about. Not all those other situations.
I have often made caring gestures to patients in an appropriate manner using common sense. I have never once been in jeopardy of losing my job or my license.
This is one of the things I detest about health care. Every little thing has to be this HUGE issue. :confused::confused:
I think this was a nice gesture. Harmless. I bet that patient really appreciated it.
I agree it was a nice gesture; and that everything has to be a "HUGE issue"; but unfortunately, we have to walk this line because of our litigious society, and because any given human can have impure (i.e. predatory) intentions, regardless of how pure the intention might seem on the outside
Not to make this a male/female thing, but let's say the OP was a male; how many would view such actions as a little less appropriate (even though the intentions might be as pure as the driven snow)? There is a chance that the patient would not have seen the OPs call as a nice gesture, hence not harmless, but perhaps as sexual harassment, stalking, etc. yes I know the same could be said because the OP is female, but reality is that the double standard of gender exists in matters like this; maybe not for you or me, or anyone on this board, etc., but it's still there.
And my point is not to argue, but to make the point that all those other situations are not useful as the discussion should be limited to the situation posted by the OP. That is what she is asking about. Not all those other situations.
I have often made caring gestures to patients in an appropriate manner using common sense. I have never once been in jeopardy of losing my job or my license.
Thank you, but I will not take your word for it. Even the smartest lawyers lose cases because of one's interpretation of the laws. Further, the nurse also asked whether or not she was inappropriate. Even if, in our opinion, she broke no HIPAA laws was she inappropriate? Maybe - and thats all that matters with this enquiry. She may not have been inappropriate this time but it may be misconceived as inappropriate next time with another patient or worst a family member. We have not come to terms with the world we live in today. What was totally acceptable years ago, I'm still a spring chicken, are, mostly, unacceptable today mainly because one's perception of an event has been brought into the equation. As a male I refrain from using such words as sweatheart, as if I new this word existed:), because it may be perceived in the wrong way and not only can the one whom I addressed can file a complaint against me but anyone who takes offence to it can do so as well. This is true in the nursing profession. We are the most disrespected and frowned upon of any profession. A public survey revealed that the public thinks we have no analytical skills. We are the most compassionate people on earth and yet the most reviled. We nurse not for the money as some believe, nurses are smart enough to be anything they want, but to care for the sick. We know that and we have nothing to prove. We are comfortable in our own skins. My only wish is that, in the process of performing our calling, we protect ourselves. We wish it was not so but it is. Gone is the fairytail world. Thanks for coming in peace, Sweatheart.
She may not have been inappropriate this time but it may be misconceived as inappropriate next time with another patient or worst a family member.
Which is the moral of the story--as sad as we might feel the reality is, having contact with a patient when we are not on the clock is walking a line that can land you in a courtroom and/or unemployed. It's just not worth the risk if you value your license.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
"She may not have been inappropriate this time" - thank you for making my point "sweatheart". This time and all the future hypotheticals are the point of the OP's question.
Y'all keep trying to make it something it is not.
When did everyone become so paranoid? If I felt your version of how nurses are treated currently I would not even be in the profession.
Most of the people i encounter think nurses are great for the most part and are very respectful and trusting. Of course, I am not working in a county hospital ER which as dim memories remind me is whole other slice of the pie.
I hear you Psych, but there must be harm for a lawsuit and this person was in no way harmed.
I know people sue for ridiculous things. That is a fact of life everywhere - not just the medical profession. Most of the time if there is no merit or harm then it will never make it past the idiot stage.
It makes me kind of sad to see how y'all feel and how paranoid you are. If I felt that way I would get my orifice out of nursing and find a different way to make a living.
Now do not get me wrong, I am all for rational paranoia. Just not this time when no harm was done and no possible law suit could occur.
I do want to tell you to rest youselves and not try any harder to change my mind because if ain't going to happen.
You live in your world and I will live in mine. My happy little common sense, non-paranoid, lawsuit and nursing board free world..............................:lol2::lol2::lol2:
:lol2:
caliotter3
38,333 Posts
I specifically informed all hospital personnel that under no circumstances was anyone to enter my room who was not directly assigned to care for me, but that did not stop the person who came into my room in the middle of the night, after walking past the nurses on duty (I did not hear if they directed the person to my room). My rights as a patient were violated and my rights as a vulnerable human being were violated. Why give out my phone number and out of hospital address too? Boundaries are boundaries and you do not even have to be a professional to respect them.