I need some opinions. The other night I was helping out in PACU. (I am usually in ER or Preop, but occasionally go to PACU when needed) I was asked by another nurse to transport her patient upstairs. The patient was early 30's female, very nice, always saying thanks when people helped her. We talked as I took her to her room. She had surgery for a cancer recurrence, so we talked about the surgery, her young kids, her family, etc. It was shift change, so I ended up having to wait with her for quite a while to see her nurse, the PACU nurse has to have face to face time with the receiving floor nurse. During this time we chatted some more. Then I left when her nurse got there.
The next day I was off. I was thinking about this patient and how nice she was. I called her room to check on her. I just let her know I had been thinking about her, and asked how she was doing...get well soon, etc. She seemed very appreciative.
A few days later I told her PACU nurse that I had spoken with her. This nurse was very offended with me and said I had broken HIPPAA (sp?) laws by calling the patient to check on her. Is this true? I just thought I was being nice. When I had my daughter, the L&D nurse called the next day to check on me. I know hospitals can be lonely places and thought one might like to hear a friendly voice and know someone was thinking of them.
"She may not have been inappropriate this time" - thank you for making my point "sweatheart". This time and all the future hypotheticals are the point of the OP's question.
Y'all keep trying to make it something it is not.
When did everyone become so paranoid? If I felt your version of how nurses are treated currently I would not even be in the profession.
Most of the people i encounter think nurses are great for the most part and are very respectful and trusting. Of course, I am not working in a county hospital ER which as dim memories remind me is whole other slice of the pie.
I hear you Psych, but there must be harm for a lawsuit and this person was in no way harmed.
I know people sue for ridiculous things. That is a fact of life everywhere - not just the medical profession. Most of the time if there is no merit or harm then it will never make it past the idiot stage.
It makes me kind of sad to see how y'all feel and how paranoid you are. If I felt that way I would get my orifice out of nursing and find a different way to make a living.
Now do not get me wrong, I am all for rational paranoia. Just not this time when no harm was done and no possible law suit could occur.
I do want to tell you to rest youselves and not try any harder to change my mind because if ain't going to happen.
You live in your world and I will live in mine. My happy little common sense, non-paranoid, lawsuit and nursing board free world..............................:lol2::lol2::lol2:
"and find a different way to make a living." Ha! Thats one of my points - making a living in this profession is just a perk. Love you anyway. Besides I love your little accent - I can actually hear your voice. Being from the Caribbean I can't help but fall in love with that kind of accent and I enjoy those similar to this one in Texas. Thank you, Lady of Conviction.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
You are killing me Gus!:D:D:D:D In a good way. I am not from the South. When I moved here they all thought i had a funny west coast accent. Now when I go back to the west coast they laugh at my southern accent. Hey, 10 years in the south will change a girl!
You are killing me Gus!:D:D:D:D In a good way. I am not from the South. When I moved here they all thought i had a funny west coast accent. Now when I go back to the west coast they laugh at my southern accent. Hey, 10 years in the south will change a girl!
Good for you. Keep us guessing.:flwrhrts: Here's to fitting in well wherever you go. I still have my gruff Caribbean accent after 20 yrs in America and I can't lose it no matter how much I try. And what was that topic again.....?
Specializes in Med/Surge, Geriatrics(LTC), Pediatricts,.
Bottom line is, if you have to ask if you were inappropriate, then, yes, you were. As I advocate, know your facilities policies on such things. If your actions are in adversity to the policies, then your actions are inappropriate. If your actions are within the realm of the facility policies then you are justified in your actions.
Those of us who elaborated, did so out of experience, and discussion.
Bottom line is, if you have to ask if you were inappropriate, then, yes, you were. As I advocate, know your facilities policies on such things. If your actions are in adversity to the policies, then your actions are inappropriate. If your actions are within the realm of the facility policies then you are justified in your actions.
Those of us who elaborated, did so out of experience, and discussion.
good rule of thumb, but the OP wouldn't have asked nor thought anything about her actions had the other nurse not cried foul
Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Obviously you have no respect for your fellow nurses and give them no credit for their selfless commmitment to the wellbeing of their patients. The nurses make sacrifice everyday for the patients and their families. Some are fired, disciplined, and arrested, like the nurses in Texas who were arrested and charged for advocating for their patients! Nurses already give too much of themselves and it is not that they do not want to give more but the price they pay for such a commitment is too great. Protecting each other outside of taking care of patients and their families should be our goal. To encourage a behavior, even if it is caring, which endangers a nurse is irresponsible and I am sure you will not, after your inconsiderate urging, contribute to her legal fund. Please stop the madness and be real!
GUSBLOM: Before I was a nurse, I was a mental health counselor, so I think I know a thing or two about healthy boundaries between professional and client, and I most DEFINITELY know all the in's and out of HIPPA. Counseling is far, far more careful about interactions with patients outside of the professional setting than most nursing specialties other than psych nursing.
The scenario that started this discussion topic falls into an area that involved professional judgment and discretion, and in no way was inappropriate, according to the details given.
I think I read a lot of fear and pain in your posts, which lead me to think you have had to work under very hard circumstances without good administrative support and care in your facility. You also sound like someone incredibly committed, caring and hard-working, so I appreciate your investment in contributing to others in the dialogue here.
In my training and interpretation, best nursing practices do not only involve technical and procedural choices--they involve the idea of treating patients holistically, which would include a spiritual or cultural element to how we interact with them.
In my community, which is a predominantly Hispanic, Catholic, small city in the southwest, my patient's expect that there is a personal context to my relationship with them. They would be insulted if I did not acknowledge the deeply personal interactions and care I provide them in my ICU, and that generally extends to family members, too. THEY have called ME back, weeks later, to ask a question or tell me thanks and fill me in. Most of the time, if they have been transferred to another part of the hospital, it reflects a huge success--stopping in on my shift to say hi would NEVER be wrong with these folks. They see me in the community, at the mall or in our kid's schools and they would expect me to recognize them, give them a hug, etc. and if I didn't it would be hurtful to them.
I understand we all have different worlds in which we function as nurses, but I think that I agree with others here that the small, personal interaction first described by "Was I Inappropriate" was perfectly fine as described, and that to compare it to actions that ARE boundary or HIPPA violations is a bit of catastrophizing and probably reflects one's immediate circumstances.
If you feel persecuted, overworked, un-supported and unappreciated where you work to the point you can so overreact to a scenario like this one then I think it's time to consider if it's a healthy environment for you to remain in. You obviously deserve better.
"She may not have been inappropriate this time" - thank you for making my point "sweatheart". This time and all the future hypotheticals are the point of the OP's question.
Y'all keep trying to make it something it is not.
When did everyone become so paranoid? If I felt your version of how nurses are treated currently I would not even be in the profession.
Most of the people i encounter think nurses are great for the most part and are very respectful and trusting. Of course, I am not working in a county hospital ER which as dim memories remind me is whole other slice of the pie.
I hear you Psych, but there must be harm for a lawsuit and this person was in no way harmed.
I know people sue for ridiculous things. That is a fact of life everywhere - not just the medical profession. Most of the time if there is no merit or harm then it will never make it past the idiot stage.
It makes me kind of sad to see how y'all feel and how paranoid you are. If I felt that way I would get my orifice out of nursing and find a different way to make a living.
Now do not get me wrong, I am all for rational paranoia. Just not this time when no harm was done and no possible law suit could occur.
I do want to tell you to rest youselves and not try any harder to change my mind because if ain't going to happen.
You live in your world and I will live in mine. My happy little common sense, non-paranoid, lawsuit and nursing board free world..............................:lol2::lol2::lol2:
Amen! I live in your world, too, and it's quiet lovely.
This thread is getting WAY too hypothetically catastrophic, in my opinion--LIGHTEN UP, EVERYONE!
GUSBLOM: Before I was a nurse, I was a mental health counselor, so I think I know a thing or two about healthy boundaries between professional and client, and I most DEFINITELY know all the in's and out of HIPPA. Counseling is far, far more careful about interactions with patients outside of the professional setting than most nursing specialties other than psych nursing.
The scenario that started this discussion topic falls into an area that involved professional judgment and discretion, and in no way was inappropriate, according to the details given.
I think I read a lot of fear and pain in your posts, which lead me to think you have had to work under very hard circumstances without good administrative support and care in your facility. You also sound like someone incredibly committed, caring and hard-working, so I appreciate your investment in contributing to others in the dialogue here.
In my training and interpretation, best nursing practices do not only involve technical and procedural choices--they involve the idea of treating patients holistically, which would include a spiritual or cultural element to how we interact with them.
In my community, which is a predominantly Hispanic, Catholic, small city in the southwest, my patient's expect that there is a personal context to my relationship with them. They would be insulted if I did not acknowledge the deeply personal interactions and care I provide them in my ICU, and that generally extends to family members, too. THEY have called ME back, weeks later, to ask a question or tell me thanks and fill me in. Most of the time, if they have been transferred to another part of the hospital, it reflects a huge success--stopping in on my shift to say hi would NEVER be wrong with these folks. They see me in the community, at the mall or in our kid's schools and they would expect me to recognize them, give them a hug, etc. and if I didn't it would be hurtful to them.
I understand we all have different worlds in which we function as nurses, but I think that I agree with others here that the small, personal interaction first described by "Was I Inappropriate" was perfectly fine as described, and that to compare it to actions that ARE boundary or HIPPA violations is a bit of catastrophizing and probably reflects one's immediate circumstances.
If you feel persecuted, overworked, un-supported and unappreciated where you work to the point you can so overreact to a scenario like this one then I think it's time to consider if it's a healthy environment for you to remain in. You obviously deserve better.
Thank you for your kind words, psychoanalysis, and advice. However, none of us are experts in any field of law and that includes HIPAA. My concern is not for my wellbeing and it is not related to my own circumstances but as a fellow nurse who see and hear of the pain of my fellow nurses, especially the female ones who generally are passive I cannot stand by and allow them, because of their deep compassion to care for others, destroy themselves. It was no small ordeal for the nurses in Texas who got arrested because they were advocating for a patient - they were charged under HIPAA laws and subsequently found innocent. If they had no representation and support, financial and otherwise, from us fellow nurses they would probably be in jail. Many nurses have been victimized and did not have the means or strength to fight their cause. Is it too much to tell a fellow nurse to be careful outthere? Is it too much to ask a fellow nurse not to compromise themselves? Every year when the Texas legislature meet they consider increased penalties for healthcare staff. Do they pay much attention to the life of the healthcare staff on the job? I do not have statistics but from what I continue to notice it seem that nurses smoke more than any other profession I have observed. They are more likely to do drugs because of the pressures of the job and when they do they are shunned upon by the public and fellow nurses alike. Should we not be looking out for each other? I care about my fellow nurses, sympathize with them, will support them whenever the need arises, and will warn them that if they are in doubt don't do it.
Thank you for your kind words, psychoanalysis, and advice. However, none of us are experts in any field of law and that includes HIPAA. My concern is not for my wellbeing and it is not related to my own circumstances but as a fellow nurse who see and hear of the pain of my fellow nurses, especially the female ones who generally are passive I cannot stand by and allow them, because of their deep compassion to care for others, destroy themselves. It was no small ordeal for the nurses in Texas who got arrested because they were advocating for a patient - they were charged under HIPAA laws and subsequently found innocent. If they had no representation and support, financial and otherwise, from us fellow nurses they would probably be in jail. Many nurses have been victimized and did not have the means or strength to fight their cause. Is it too much to tell a fellow nurse to be careful outthere? Is it too much to ask a fellow nurse not to compromise themselves? Every year when the Texas legislature meet they consider increased penalties for healthcare staff. Do they pay much attention to the life of the healthcare staff on the job? I do not have statistics but from what I continue to notice it seem that nurses smoke more than any other profession I have observed. They are more likely to do drugs because of the pressures of the job and when they do they are shunned upon by the public and fellow nurses alike. Should we not be looking out for each other? I care about my fellow nurses, sympathize with them, will support them whenever the need arises, and will warn them that if they are in doubt don't do it.
Ok, so I find the bolded statement a bit offensive. I have not gotten the impression that nurses of any gender are looking for anyone to save them from destroying themselves because they're to passive to do it for themselves. It's a very paternalistic point of view.
Ok, so I find the bolded statement a bit offensive. I have not gotten the impression that nurses of any gender are looking for anyone to save them from destroying themselves because they're to passive to do it for themselves. It's a very paternalistic point of view.
Take offense if you may but I make no apologies. The male nurses are not treated half as bad as the female nurses and as a male nurse I support my female nurses. Touchy, touchy.
:D:D:D:D In a good way. I am not from the South. When I moved here they all thought i had a funny west coast accent. Now when I go back to the west coast they laugh at my southern accent. Hey, 10 years in the south will change a girl!
:lol2:
Luv Ya.
gusblom
81 Posts
"and find a different way to make a living." Ha! Thats one of my points - making a living in this profession is just a perk. Love you anyway. Besides I love your little accent - I can actually hear your voice. Being from the Caribbean I can't help but fall in love with that kind of accent and I enjoy those similar to this one in Texas. Thank you, Lady of Conviction.