verified perception of near death experience

amzyRN · Apr 6, 2017

I've asked patients who have experienced cardiac arrest. Some have experienced "nothing" and others have described a white light and seeing relatives that tell them it's not their time. I've actually just asked a few patients who have volunteered information to me, telling me they have coded or "died" before. There's no way to prove they are not more than hallucinations from a dying brain. People that are having CPR performed are still getting some oxygen perfusion to their brain. Near death experiences are fascinating for sure.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Apr 6, 2017

I asked a guy who coded and was resuscitated if he "remembered anything" of the experience. He said no, only that he was annoyed that we had shined that bright light into his face. Uh...there was no bright light shining in his face.

I met another man who was not a patient, but visiting his mother. He mentioned he had an implanted defibrillator, and I commented, "wow, I'm guessing you had an arrest at some point?" He nodded and said he was at a restaurant and suffered a cardiac arrest. Everyone thought that someone else had surely dialed 911, but no one had. Two nurses were there on a lunch break (obviously not floor nurses, lol) and did CPR on him for 15 minutes (the hospital was across the street!!).

I asked him "do you remember anything from that incident"? He smiled and said "I know what you are actually asking. Yes, I went through a tunnel, into a beautiful bright light and met God." I responded, "What was that like?" He replied "Imagine the most peaceful, euphoric feelings of love you've ever experienced, and multiply it by 1 million." We were both quiet for a moment and he suddenly said "I was raised Baptist, but we got a few things wrong." Curious, I asked, "Really? Such as?" He answered, "Well for one thing, everyone goes to Heaven." Shocked and disturbed, I blurted out "Seriously?! Even murderers and child molesters?!" He nodded. "Yep, even them." Then added quickly, "but you are confronted with all your actions. But no, no one goes to Hell."

He told me that he is not afraid to die, but very much wants to live as long as possible. And that the point of living is "To love, be loved, and to learn. Never stop learning."

It was a fascinating conversation. I'm not trying to convince anyone that what he told me was true, just repeating the interaction.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Apr 6, 2017

We had one on my unit who respiratory arrested; he had turned purple and bradied down into the 30s. He said later that he felt himself floating outside the room, and looked in at himself and the team.

As for the accounts of heaven, from my perspective as a Sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) type Christian... if I hear of someone being told info that contradicts the Bible (such as everyone going to Heaven, repentant of their sins or not... even the genocidal monsters who die believing that their atrocities were justified!!)........ I kind of wonder if there WAS some supernatural influence, but not God.

Also if you look at the famous claims of people who have allegedly been to heaven, their stories contradict each other. Some have even contradicted their own stories over time! If anyone wants more info on that, a minister named Justin Peters has a talk called "Heavenly Tourism" on YouTube. I mean if someone claims to have been to the Alps, but describes mountains with no timber line and no snow, I'm going to doubt that they were near the Alps.

Plus, the apostle Paul in the Bible, under inspiration of the Holy Spirit (as Christians believe) was temporarily taken into Heaven. God didn't allow him to share what he saw. If he couldn't, why are these people writing books and making millions of dollars?

Some things I can't explain, such as the guy floating outside his room, or the vivid visions of deceased loved ones, or the light. I do know that our brain is an extremely complex creation, and research continues to show us new things. Maybe it's hallucinations, maybe it is a 6th sense...kind of like you hear about mothers being jolted awake, or hearing their child's voice as something was happening to the child. I once had an extremely vivid dream myself, shortly after my Grandpa died. He was >100 yrs old, and my school-age kids were heartbroken. In this dream he looked so joyful, and he was telling me he was okay. I woke up feeling extremely peaceful. Was there something significant about that dream? Maybe, maybe not...I don't know.

What I do know, again from my perspective as a Christian, is I need to weigh all claims against Scripture. (And to clarify, I mean that for my own knowledge purposes. I'm not going to engage in a theological debate with a patient, especially just after they arrested. That would be a violation of that professional relationship.)

Farawyn · Apr 6, 2017

Hi, just joined this forum because I thought this would be a good place to ask.
I've been researching near death experiences extensively. Who doesn't want to go to heaven?
Has any nurse here seen a patient, while in an out of body experience, describe events happening during cardiac arrest NOT in the vicinity of the patient? There's a lot of debate about whether this is a hallucination, some scientists say the patient can be still conscious and incorporate auditory information into their hallucination of the scene in the vicinity. I'm interested if anyone encountered a patient who saw/heard things in another room during cardiac arrest.
I understand there's a huge stigma in science and medicine against talking about these things but this is a forum and you're anonymous. If you want you can just pm me. Thanks.

Hi.

What is your research for, and are you a nurse?

Thanks.

Extra Pickles · Apr 6, 2017

I watched a PBS documentary a few months ago on the topic, it was an in-depth presentation of studies on this topic with video of the subjects undergoing the simulation (making them anoxic, etc before reviving them). The purpose was to see if provided the same "near death" experiences what areas of the brain would be 'lit up' on the monitors, what the subjects would report. Fascinating really.

The end result was something along the lines of any brain that undergoes the oxygen deprivation and assorted chemical reaction/interactions would likely see that bright light at the end of a long tunnel.

Those of us with religious convictions that include an afterlife choose to believe that the light means heaven or the Almighty. But science does seem to have an explanation for it ultimately. I came in about a third of the way through so didn't get to see it all but it really was very interesting.

Maybe you should Google for that documentary and see it firsthand for that research?

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Apr 6, 2017

What kind of throws me off the "it's just an anoxic brain" deal is the fact that so many people report seeing dead relatives waiting to greet them. If they were hallucinating about loved ones, why wouldn't they also see living people they love in these hallucinations? One could say we've heard these stories so many times that we see what we expect to see. However, young children who have no preconceived notions have reported these same experiences.

It's fascinating for sure. I've read a lot of books about this phenomenon.

KJoRN81, RN · Apr 6, 2017

I asked a guy who coded and was resuscitated if he "remembered anything" of the experience. He said no, only that he was annoyed that we had shined that bright light into his face. Uh...there was no bright light shining in his face.
I met another man who was not a patient, but visiting his mother. He mentioned he had an implanted defibrillator, and I commented, "wow, I'm guessing you had an arrest at some point?" He nodded and said he was at a restaurant and suffered a cardiac arrest. Everyone thought that someone else had surely dialed 911, but no one had. Two nurses were there on a lunch break (obviously not floor nurses, lol) and did CPR on him for 15 minutes (the hospital was across the street!!).
I asked him "do you remember anything from that incident"? He smiled and said "I know what you are actually asking. Yes, I went through a tunnel, into a beautiful bright light and met God." I responded, "What was that like?" He replied "Imagine the most peaceful, euphoric feelings of love you've ever experienced, and multiply it by 1 million." We were both quiet for a moment and he suddenly said "I was raised Baptist, but we got a few things wrong." Curious, I asked, "Really? Such as?" He answered, "Well for one thing, everyone goes to Heaven." Shocked and disturbed, I blurted out "Seriously?! Even murderers and child molesters?!" He nodded. "Yep, even them." Then added quickly, "but you are confronted with all your actions. But no, no one goes to Hell."
He told me that he is not afraid to die, but very much wants to live as long as possible. And that the point of living is "To love, be loved, and to learn. Never stop learning."
It was a fascinating conversation. I'm not trying to convince anyone that what he told me was true, just repeating the interaction.

Thank you for sharing your stories. Very touching and they really made my day! (I'm a hospice nurse so hearing something so lovely is a nice change lol)

TrumpOnRoids · Apr 7, 2017

I watched a PBS documentary a few months ago on the topic, it was an in-depth presentation of studies on this topic with video of the subjects undergoing the simulation (making them anoxic, etc before reviving them). The purpose was to see if provided the same "near death" experiences what areas of the brain would be 'lit up' on the monitors, what the subjects would report. Fascinating really.
The end result was something along the lines of any brain that undergoes the oxygen deprivation and assorted chemical reaction/interactions would likely see that bright light at the end of a long tunnel.
Those of us with religious convictions that include an afterlife choose to believe that the light means heaven or the Almighty. But science does seem to have an explanation for it ultimately. I came in about a third of the way through so didn't get to see it all but it really was very interesting.
Maybe you should Google for that documentary and see it firsthand for that research?

Really? What's the documentary called? I've read a lot and my impression is that the oxygen starvation thing has been thoroughly debunked. People with low oxygen see tunnel vision in the sense that they lose their peripheral vision, they don't actually see a tunnel with clear walls and feel they are accelerating. Furthermore, lack of oxygen cause confusion and disorientation, in contrast to the hyper clear awareness during NDE. I have very low blood pressure and I know what low oxygen feels like (when I crouch for 10 minutes then suddenly stand up). And also, people still have NDE when their physical body is unharmed. Unless I've misinformed big time, the oxygen theory is complete nonsense. With everything I've read, the only possible explanation left is release of chemicals similar to DMT/ketamine. Those two induce hallucinations with some similar properties to NDEs, but I've never seen anyone have a classical NDE with those 2 drugs.

Extra Pickles · Apr 7, 2017

Really? What's the documentary called? I've read a lot and my impression is that the oxygen starvation thing has been thoroughly debunked. People with low oxygen see tunnel vision in the sense that they lose their peripheral vision, they don't actually see a tunnel with clear walls and feel they are accelerating. Furthermore, lack of oxygen cause confusion and disorientation, in contrast to the hyper clear awareness during NDE. I have very low blood pressure and I know what low oxygen feels like (when I crouch for 10 minutes then suddenly stand up). And also, people still have NDE when their physical body is unharmed. Unless I've misinformed big time, the oxygen theory is complete nonsense. With everything I've read, the only possible explanation left is release of chemicals similar to DMT/ketamine. Those two induce hallucinations with some similar properties to NDEs, but I've never seen anyone have a classical NDE with those 2 drugs.

I was just trying to find that, hunting around Google, and I haven't yet but since I know I SAW it lol I'm sure I WILL find a reference to it! Might have been a Nat'l Geo, or NOVA, I don't remember, wish I did, but it was something I recognized as worth watching, not some sensationalist junk. I don't know the name as I came across it a bit after it started (not from the beginning). I would think if it was a completely debunked thing it wouldn't be shown on TV as though it were current, it had all the hallmarks of a current story.

I do remember that the test subjects went through some pretty weird stuff to prep them for the "near death" experience, it wasn't just oxygen hunger. They were spun around or shaken in some way, I really wish I could remember more of the details, but eventually after whatever was being done to them, someone pinched the nose shut until the person passed out. And then the monitor-watching of brain activity would get really wild.

I remember one of them describing the actual OOB experience as floating above her own body, looking around, floating around the room, the kind of things people report after naturally-obtained "near deaths". Lights, tunnels, speeding toward something, like that. Now it's irritating me I don't know the name of the film but I'm going to keep working on finding it.

Extra Pickles · Apr 7, 2017

What kind of throws me off the "it's just an anoxic brain" deal is the fact that so many people report seeing dead relatives waiting to greet them. If they were hallucinating about loved ones, why wouldn't they also see living people they love in these hallucinations? One could say we've heard these stories so many times that we see what we expect to see. However, young children who have no preconceived notions have reported these same experiences.
It's fascinating for sure. I've read a lot of books about this phenomenon.

That was mentioned in the film I watched, had to do something with the brain using memories, NOT just random hallucinations. Your brain knows who is dead, you see the dead people, some reported seeing the live people while they were "floating around" and seeing their own body there too.

Crazy chemical releases in the brain, I have no doubt we only know a fraction of what we will one day know about our own beings. At one time people were convinced that illnesses were borne on "bad vapors", that foul smells brought about disease, all that long before we discovered the microbes that really are the diseases and how they get into our bodies to cause havoc. Not smells, but organisms.

My point is only that I believe we are well on the way to explaining all that happens in the NDEs and OOBEs just as easily as we now understand the disease process. Heck it wasn't that long ago that people didn't understand enough about HIV or AIDS to know that you didn't have to be homosexual to contract it or that it wasn't spread through a handshake!

I like the thought of a soul or spirit living on past the body's existence, and it helps me to think of my loved ones "living" the rest of eternity in comfort and peace. I just don't know that the chemical process involved in breaking down the mind and body at time of death is what heralds The Afterlife so much as just that, chemical reactions, not the sight of Heaven.

TrumpOnRoids · Apr 8, 2017

I was just trying to find that, hunting around Google, and I haven't yet but since I know I SAW it lol I'm sure I WILL find a reference to it! Might have been a Nat'l Geo, or NOVA, I don't remember, wish I did, but it was something I recognized as worth watching, not some sensationalist junk. I don't know the name as I came across it a bit after it started (not from the beginning). I would think if it was a completely debunked thing it wouldn't be shown on TV as though it were current, it had all the hallmarks of a current story.
I do remember that the test subjects went through some pretty weird stuff to prep them for the "near death" experience, it wasn't just oxygen hunger. They were spun around or shaken in some way, I really wish I could remember more of the details, but eventually after whatever was being done to them, someone pinched the nose shut until the person passed out. And then the monitor-watching of brain activity would get really wild.
I remember one of them describing the actual OOB experience as floating above her own body, looking around, floating around the room, the kind of things people report after naturally-obtained "near deaths". Lights, tunnels, speeding toward something, like that. Now it's irritating me I don't know the name of the film but I'm going to keep working on finding it.

Wow that documentary sounds dodgy to me, when it mentioned the tunnel and speeding towards the light with the centrifuge + loss of oxygen. I've read a lot of debates between skeptics and proponents and I don't recall a skeptic ever mentioning centrifuge inducing the light and tunnel thing. It certainly does induce a lot of OBE. I've had OBE as well during sleep paralysis, OBE is a rather common thing. An air force colonel did experiments with centrifuge and concluded while it induces OBEs and feeling of extreme peace (also happens in NDEs), it wasn't near enough to make a connection between the two.

I'd take documentaries/news articles supporting materialism, and ones supporting afterlife, both with high levels of skepticism. There's a huge grudge of people for the other side, both sides have mentioned things in documentaries and news articles that are plainly false in order to further their cause. The people in the documentary you watched might be prone to suggestive questioning, i.e. the experimenters ask "did you experience so and so" instead of asking "what did you experience" and didn't tell them what they were expected to see. Or the experimenters simply lied about the details, I know the attitude of neuroscientists towards NDEs.

From my experience most neuroscientists who try to explain NDEs have no idea the full extent of the issue. No full blown NDE has ever been artificially induced yet, and veridical perceptions are the reason so many NDE researchers are taking this subject very seriously, e.g. Bruce Greyson & Kenneth Ring & Sam Parnia. If they are hallucinations one would expect most veridical perceptions to contain at least one error, but this is not the case. Don't take Jeffery Long seriously though, he thinks the consistency of NDEs alone is enough to proof afterlife.

It's true NDErs sometimes see living people (rare though), although in many of the context I've seen it's somewhat reasonable to argue some deceased relative is taking the form of a living person to comfort the NDErs. It's also true people have NDEs when they are not critically damaged, or even damaged at all. Some people have NDEs just going through severe emotional stress. This gives a lot of credit to the chemical release explanation, because why would the soul leave the body when the body is not damaged at all?

Without confirmed veridical perception in another room or hidden targets, or the NDErs looking at where the hidden target is and sees nothing, the debate will continue. That's why I made this thread, I want to know.