VENT: ADN and BSN

Jolie, BSN · Jul 24, 2008

I think you will find that starting an ADN vs BSN debate is counterproductive. As you accurately stated, we all pass the same boards and earn the same license. I suggest you not generalize about the quality of BSN education based on a few questions posed by students in your review class, just as you would not appreciate anyone bashing ADN grads.

That said, I am finding a common problem among posters on various threads regarding educational preparation. Many posters have lamented the difficulty in finding jobs as ADN grads in some areas of the country. Another poster stated the difficulty in finding a job as an Excelsior grad even in a state that accepts Excelsior degrees.

I suggest that potential nursing students research the job market in the area they would like to work before enrolling in school. There are many cities with a glut of RN grads looking for jobs (Philadelphia, Boston, NYC, for example). Employers there can set any standards they like about the grads they employ, since there are so many from which to choose, from so many local schools. I don't mean to imply that BSN grads are superior to any other, simply that there are fewer of them, so it narrows the selection process quickly for the nurse recruiter, and looks good to JCAHO surveyors and Magnet status reviewers to advertise staff members with Bachelor's-level educational preparation.

In less populated areas with fewer nursing schools, nurse recruiters welcome inquiries from grads of all programs. You may find that you need to be flexible in location in order to find your first nursing job.

Students would be well-served to understand their employment prospects before choosing a nursing education program, so that they can choose a program best suited to meeting their employment goals.

Sweet_Cheekss · Jul 24, 2008

i definitely am not saying that all are like this. I was just venting. Like i said no offense to anyone. this is something i just needed to get off my chest.

NurseLay · Jul 24, 2008

I'm an ADN grad (May 08 grad), however I plan on pursuing my BSN starting in the Fall. The school that I graduated from split the program for some odd reason. I have been told that the BSN grads have more knowledge as far as management and stuff like that, not necessarily the skills part.

Many hospitals are saying BSN preferred on applications, however, you have to sell yourself. I will be working on PICU at a magnet facility and I have been offered positions at 3 different magnet hospitals so I was actually able to choose where I wanted to be and one hospital allowed me to choose the unit I wanted. I expressed during each interview that I do have plans to further my education and that is what they like to hear.

However, the hospital where I will be working, have expressed that they actually want me to wait a year before continuing my education and that is something that I am actually struggling with because I've only been in school three years and I have no desire to wait. Anyway, I started rambling.

Bottom line, recruiters and managers want to hear that you plan on continuing your education and that you just want more. You just have to sell yourself and know your worth.

Good luck to you and I'm sure you'll find something, you may not get exactly what you want.

valkyria, BSN, RN · Jul 24, 2008

this is a question that many nurses have been wondering and lost in a quandry over for some time. whether you have a diploma, an associate, a bachelors, a masters or a phd, you are still a nurse! diploma and associate degree programs seem to be more technically oriented, skills and abilities. when i graduated with my bsn i definitely felt behind my counterparts who had diplomas and associates. they had been on the floors and in the trenches more than i. my professors told me that it would take 6-8 months to reach the level of proficiency that those folks had. then we would be even. not necessarily. i was drilled with thinking deeper into the problem that the patient has. i would go farther than i had to in answering a question on an exam or on the boards even, than necessary. how could i, keep it simple, if i was taught to think complexly? i come from a family of doctors and worked with many very closely while in school and growing up. that gave me another problem. medicine sees the flu, for instance, one way and nursing see the same disease process, a different way: ineffective airway clearance secondary to copious secretions and ineffective cough as evidenced by green sputum expectorated, declilning saturation levels, elevated temperature (alteration in temperature), and weakness (activity intolerance/altered mental status). so, the more school you have, the better prepared you are to "think" more critically or in more dimensions. but, you can also say, the more education you have, the more confused you are! states cannot agree to make one level of education as the entry level requirement for the profession. no state wants to be the one to say, ok, we want all of our nurses to be bachelor prepared, and that is what is going to be required as the minimum to be employed as a nurse in this state. so, anywhere you see a nurse, you can be sure that nurse has at least a bachelors and, we are going to enhance our pay scale to reflect our desire, as an organization, to have nurses strive for that level of qualification. no state, that i know of, has put their money where their mouth is. so we all go around confused and asking, what is the difference and why would i bother. i know why i wanted my bsn and yes, it has made a difference to me but to my employer (s), i am not sure. and i know they would never tell me the truth!

valkyria, BSN, RN · Jul 24, 2008

jolie has the right idea though, look around and ask other nurses around where you want to work, ask nurses of different ages and different races and different ethnic origins, (that too makes a difference in some places and with some organizations),and nurses of different years of experience, ask them what they think and if they would change something if they could do it again. that alone may be a learning experience for the both of you. ask recruiters in large organizations and small around where you want to work, what their feelings on the issue and what does the market there look like. do not go by advertisements and the internet, that is only one window with one view. :heartbeat

RNDreamer · Jul 24, 2008

I think you will find that starting an ADN vs BSN debate is counterproductive. As you accurately stated, we all pass the same boards and earn the same license. I suggest you not generalize about the quality of BSN education based on a few questions posed by students in your review class, just as you would not appreciate anyone bashing ADN grads.

I agree. I cannot stand reading posts about how BSN students know less than ADN students, have less clinical time, blah, blah, blah.

I am so sorry that you are having a hard time finding a job. I noticed that my top choice hospitals are 'BSN preferred' and I am glad I chose to go this route. However, I didn't think that ADNs would have a hard time finding any jobs. Have you tried the HHC hospitals? Here is a link to the HHC facilties, as well as a link to NYC hospitals. Good luck!

http://www.nyc.gov/html/hhc/html/careers/employment.shtml

http://hospitals.nyhealth.gov/browse_search.php?rt=R_NY+Metro+-+New+York+City&form=REGION

june2009 · Jul 28, 2008

Where I'm at (near Pittsburgh) it makes no difference if you have your ADN/diploma/ or BSN. I think you make a little more per hour as a BSN. A few of the major hospitals (West Penn, Shadyside, and I think St. Margarets) have their own diploma programs so that would be kind of stupid if they would only hire BSN nurses. I'm sorry to hear that some ADN nurses are having a haed time finding a job.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jul 30, 2008

I agree with Jolie. You can be frustrated that you are encountering a difficult time in finding employment with an ADN, but you have to realize that you could have eliminated some or all of that frustration simply by researching the NYC job market prior to choosing a nursing school.

You would have found that BSN grads are preferred in your city.

Now, that said, that does not mean that ADN grads will not find jobs; you might just have a little harder time at first, especially fresh out of school. There's plenty of BSN grads there ready to start on Monday, just like you. You might not start with your first choice hospital; perhaps there's another area you can move toward, to gain experience. And once you have a year, two, three under your belt, no one is going to care where you went to school, only where you WORKED!

So, keep looking, keep interviewing, and make great impressions on those with whom you interview. "BSN preferred" does not mean "BSN gets it" if YOU are the better fit for the job for other reasons. Emphasize what YOU bring to the table in every interview.

For what it's worth, this is really a regional thing: there are MANY places on the map where an RN is worth the same regardless of what school prepared you to take the NCLEX. In my area, a BSN gets paid either a quarter or fifty cents an hour more; therefore nobody who gets a BSN does so for that reason. They aren't preferred in the hiring process either; again, it's what an individual brings to the table. I've absolutely seen ADN grads take jobs over BSN applicants. It's not black and white.

Hang in there. Put your best face forward, and be open to options. Having an RN license is of value, period.

piel_canela26 · Jul 31, 2008

wait! you forgot the question on Why a pt with gout should not drink slimfast? Oh i know how you feel sweet cheek, cuz i was in the same class!

phillystudentforlife · Jul 31, 2008

I think it depends on where you apply. In the Philadelphia area, some of the Center City hospitals prefer BSN RNs, but some hospitals will take you as an ADN/ASN if you sign an agreement to get your BSN within a certain amount of time. Also, if you work in the suburbs outside of the city of Philadelphia, it is much easier to get a job as an RN without your BSN.

jjjoy, LPN · Jul 31, 2008

i come from a family of doctors and worked with many very closely while in school and growing up. that gave me another problem. medicine sees the flu, for instance, one way and nursing see the same disease process, a different way: ineffective airway clearance secondary to copious secretions and ineffective cough as evidenced by green sputum expectorated, declilning saturation levels, elevated temperature (alteration in temperature), and weakness (activity intolerance/altered mental status). so, the more school you have, the better prepared you are to "think" more critically or in more dimensions. but, you can also say, the more education you have, the more confused you are!

i hear ya!!!!! i love your example. see my poor attempt at "nurse speak" in my rant on student care plans. https://allnurses.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5020965