Vegan Diet - Healthy?

Rascal1 · Jan 8, 2009

I believe that God and nature intended for us to eat that which is provided and made available to us. Variety and moderation promote exceptional health, if, we are open, able and willing to explore it. Any extremes,as described here in this thread , can put our health at risk or in some cases, in jeopardy. If, I had the resources, and the time available to me I'd live and work on my own small farm, complete with gardens to embrace and celebrate life !! And I would happily share my bounties. Call me crazy !! Be my guest .... Having a deep love/respect for animals, I am aghast at the concept of animal cruelty. And I truly wish we,as humans could love/respect each other with just a few less conditions...

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 8, 2009

I believe that God and nature intended for us to eat that which is provided and made available to us. Variety and moderation promote exceptional health, if, we are open, able and willing to explore it. Any extremes,as described here in this thread , can put our health at risk or in some cases, in jeopardy. If, I had the resources, and the time available to me I'd live and work on my own small farm, complete with gardens to embrace and celebrate life !! And I would happily share my bounties. Call me crazy !! Be my guest .... Having a deep love/respect for animals, I am aghast at the concept of animal cruelty. And I truly wish we,as humans could love/respect each other with just a few less conditions...

Not all of us feel that eliminate animal products is "extreme". But I do think that eliminate carbs and eating all protein is extreme. LOL

RedZeppelinRN · Jan 14, 2009

The dairy industry with their billion dollar budget and goverment subsidies have convinced people they have to have dairy or be unhealthy. With a little bit of Vit. D, i.e. sunshine, a little calcium goes a long way. Also the high amount of animal protein we Americans eat leeches calcium. Which is why, even though we eat a lot of dairy, we still have high rates of osteoporosis and hip fractures, etc.
I'm not sure about a "Vegan Philosophy", since vegans, like nurses, aren't always cohesive, but they do not eat, wear or use animal products to the best of their ability. This means they don't use soaps or burn candles with animal fat in them, don't wear leather, wool, or use feather pillows, and don't buy from companies that test on animals, just to name a few things that are part of the vegan lifestyle. For them it's not just about eating, it's about the animals.

I developed IBS a couple of months ago. Unbelievable pain, gas, etc. Doc recommended no dairy, red meat, chocolate, you name it. It has been exceedingly challenging trying to make substitutes. Interesting, I could eat fresh tomatoes right off the plant. But one time I drank a very yummy, cold, glass of V-8 juice. I almost died from the pain. I learned very quickly about chemicals in prepared food. However, after about 3 months I have gotten a better handle on this kind of diet. I felt so bad for about a month I was not able to go back to the gym and work out. When I first went back to the gym, I thought, oh boy, this is going to be a long trip back. To my surprise, my workout was much stronger. It seems to me though, that vegan for a teen would be pretty tough. But in spite of these huge dietary changes, I can eat chicken, fish, and other supplements for protein. I have tried a vegan diet in the past and found my body just did not feel as good. I really felt that I just could not do without that real animal protein. It reinforces my belief that some foods are good for you and others with all the chemicals are not. I've often wondered about the people that are so thin from eating only nuts and salads and such other foods, what their bone and muscles are like. I've really read no research on it. Might be a good idea to start some research.

I would think very seriously about a teen doing a vegan diet, especially while still growing.

smarter · Jan 14, 2009

I sometimes think a Vegan diet is an extreme. However, a Vegatarian diet is something to think about. Any food in it's original container (ie: no processed food) has to be good for you. There are some interesting reads and the one thing I remember is regarding cows that eat any old thing in the field. As opposed to eating nutritious food which I guess would be orgainic. And "Free Range" chickens, those that can move around and are fed better seems to be a humaine thing to do. I think some of these thoughts are what Vegatarians are thinking. The thing that naws at me are "diet foods". Perhaps anyone with a growing kid in the family would want to consult with a Registered Dietitian and MD.

Sean 91 · Jan 14, 2009

We were taught in nursing school that health care should be based on emperical evidence (which is always changing) rather than on personal opinion--which seems to rule the day. One international program that promotes the vegan diet for heart patients is the Coronary Health Improvement Project

http://www.chipusa.org/

run by cardiologists, who, with nutritionists hold classes on how to halt heart disease in its tracks by changing a diet based largely (in America) on meat toward the vegan diet--or at least treating meat like a condiment (3 oz) rather than as the main course. In one recent class my wife joined, the class of 40 people from mixed backgrounds but all suffering from HTN, hypercholesterol/lipids, some with history of heart caths, and even one heart transplant patient, were guided guided over a month of evening classes on how to make carbs and vegetables the main course.

At the end of the month, the group had lost 1-1/2 adults in the ave pre-class weight of the group, the diabetics were able to go down 1/2 on their insulin (under M.D.'s orders, of course), all class members cholesterol dropped

Osteoporosis is rampant in the Western industrialized countries, not the Far East or anywhere else where meat is not regularly on the table (It is right in my Nursing Nutrition book from nursing school). True, caffeine (coffee, Coke) and smoking tobacco, as someone pointed out, lack of exercise (recall that one from nursing school) and use of anti-anxiety drugs are also related to calcium leeching out of the body.

But it is a high protein diet, particularly a meat diet, which causes calcium to leech out, through urine and stool, of the bone reserve of calcium. This may be because the amino acids from the meat breakdown in part to sulfur ions which cause calcium to leech out through the urine. Other say that sulfur (from the meat amno acids) makes the blood more acidic, which the body adjusts by breaking down bone tissue--and calcium out through urine. A third explanation is that urea, as a waste product from the breakdown of amino acids fom meat, acts as a diuretic, and minerals, including calcium go out with the urine.

And consumption of calcium supplements does not improve calcium levels when the diet is high protein. In fact, a little chart here shows that hip fractures actually rise (a nice 45 degree line up to the right--a direct relationship) as calcium intake increases.

A higher intake of vegetable protein, however, does not appear to be related to osteoporosis, and in fact, as that chart in my nursing school nutrition book shows, osteoporosis is lower in the (mostly poorer) nations that rely on a vegetable-based diet--where meat is too expensive to be eaten regularly. So as the Far East adopts the McDonald's diet, etc., we should see the rate of osteoporosis there climb.

(This info is from studies done at the University of Wisconsin and others from the Ch 7 "The Great Meat and Protein Myth" in Neil Nedley, M.D.'s PROOF POSITIVE: How to Reliably Combat Disease and Achieve Optimal Health through Nutrition and Lifestyle, edited by David DeRose, M.D., both associated with Loma Linda University.

And my nursing school nutrition book, "Foundations and Clinical Approaches of Nutrition: A Nursing Approach," Grodner and DeYoung, 3rd ed. (like 2004 or something), which some of you may have.

(Sorry not official book sites as taught in nursing school--but hated that class anyway.)

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jan 15, 2009

I have tried a vegan diet in the past and found my body just did not feel as good. I really felt that I just could not do without that real animal protein. It reinforces my belief that some foods are good for you and others with all the chemicals are not. I've often wondered about the people that are so thin from eating only nuts and salads and such other foods, what their bone and muscles are like. I've really read no research on it. Might be a good idea to start some research.

I agree, people should research their diets. I whole heartedly agree about the chemicals. I appreciate that you at least tried veganism. Not all diets fit everyone equally. I've read on various boards that some people go through a period at first when they feel bad, when the body is adjusting and detoxing. Personally, I feel significantly better with veg*n eating. I get sluggish if I eat too much meat and dairy.

Those skinny people if they are consuming enough calories and exercising then probably have good muscle and body mass. If they are undereating and not getting enough calories, then there's a problem.

A couple of well known (at least in the vegan community) vegan atheletes are tri-athelete Brendan Brazier and body builders Robert Cheeke and Kenneth Williams (see links below). It's very possible to thrive and build muscle and be thin and vegan.

http://www.brendanbrazier.com

http://veganmusclepower.org/

http://www.robertcheeke.com/?page=bodybuilder_articles

smarter · Jan 15, 2009

Thank you to SeanSean for the interesting reply. It makes a lot of sense to me.

ShifraPuah · Jan 15, 2009

Of course a vegan diet can be healthy! Just like any other diet--omnivore or vegetarian--you may have to tweak it now and then to best suit YOUR needs. What works for you may not work for someone else.

I am an omnivore, but was veggie for a few years. I still believe in eating meat-free for a few days of the week, lots of fruits and veggies, plus whole grains. I stay away from processed food and eat organic; I just feel better.

Bottom line: eat what works for you and keeps you healthy.

ToxicShock · Jan 15, 2009

I considered going vegetarian for a while. The many I self-righteous vegetarians/vegans that I encountered changed my mind.

I would never let a few rude people change my mind about something that is important to me.

Jiminocala · Jan 15, 2009

I don't think so. Though I support people's right to decide such things for themselves and their minor children, within reason, the question asked if I believe it is healthy and I say NO. My reasoning centers around essential amino and fatty acids, some of which are not present in any amount in vegetables and are essential for normal growth and development. I don't see where the youths will get these substances in a vegan diet, unless they are sneaking around the corner for a burger every so often.Regards;

Promote Nursing everywhere you go.

Jim in Ocala, FL

Jiminocala · Jan 15, 2009

And, this just in from Men's Health on-line bulletin:

20 Worst Foods in America

By David Zinczenko, with Matt Goulding

Worst "Healthy" Sandwich

Blimpie Veggie Supreme (12")

1,106 calories

56 g fat (33 g saturated fat)

2,831 mg sodium

96 g carbohydrates

"Sure, a Veggie Supreme sandwich sounds healthy, but this foot-long comes with three different kinds of cheese, and it's drenched in oil. After Blimpie gets done with this vegetarian nightmare, you'd be better off consuming two Big Macs than sitting down with this sandwich."

Good Lord!

Jim in Ocala, FL

RedZeppelinRN · Jan 15, 2009

Thanks so much for the info. There is much to research here. Even though there is a lot of meat that I cannot eat, I still don't eat too much of the chicken and fish. Just enough to get a "feel" for how much my body needs. Surprisingly, it isn't that much, I am delighted to say. Another thing I have found, now that I have cut down on the larger amounts of protein and red meats, I am losing my appetite for them. Besides, it is much easier to prepare food that you don't have to cook.

I really used to think you needed a lot of animal protein to get those muscles. But I hadn't been to the gym for a week and went today and my incline treadmill numbers went from 3 to 5. Not great #s, I know, but it seemed like it took a long time to just get to 3. Now in a week it's up to 5. I just feel a whole lot more energetic and haven't had fish or chicken for more than once or twice a week. Wow! And I am no spring chicken.

I am looking forward to taking the time to read the articles. So kind of you to take your time to help.