US economic crisis and Nurses???

suzanne4, RN · Oct 12, 2008

The retrogression has been in effect for only two years this month, at least this round. There is a limit as to the number of green cards that are issued per year total as well as a limit from anyone country. The most are issued to those from India, China, and the Philippines; referred to as the PIC countries. And this is just under 10,000 per year, including dependent family members under that quota.

The issue now is for a facility to be able to prove that they are not able to hire an American first for the job, and they do need excellent documentation of that. First with posting the job in house and then in the newspapers, that alone takes about six weeks in most cases.

Then it depends on where one lives. Boston area has been saturated with new grads for sometime, same as with the Bay Area. Seattle area has been hard as well for new grads, let alone foreign nurses. Just not going to happen in those areas and many more. If you look at the individual state forums, you can find specifics about certain areas.

Sure, it is always going to be earier to get a job in LTC, that is a given. But one has legal responsibility for up to 60 patients or so per shift and the nurses from LTC are high on the list to lose a license per the documentation of the various BONs around the country.

woknblues · Oct 12, 2008

The retrogression has been in effect for only two years this month, at least this round..

Meant to say 4/10 (including the retrogression in 1999-2000...). You don't miss a thing do you?

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My general point is that it is times like now with our economy that we inevitably look for scapegoats. Lets not start blaming "foreigners". It is a VERY antiquated viewpoint, and history has never shown immigrants to be harmful to our economy, or employment statistics. Our government has put the clamp down on visas during democratic AND republican administrations. And let's not forget under who's administration the last H1-b retrogression was lifted, and wanted to issue permits for "jobs that Americans don't want" by way of temporary worker permit back in 2003-4-5, only a short time before the latest retrogression came into effect...

http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/George_W__Bush_Immigration.htm

Not trying to turn this thread political, and not "dog piling" on Bush, just reacting to rhetoric I see sprouting up whenever jobs get tight and things go south. The immigrant blame game is history repeating itself in America, started with the Irish, the Italians, the Germans, the Jews, the Mexicans, the Filipinos, The Indians, the Arabs,the Chinese,(others of course) etc. ad nauseum. Without all those mentioned above, America would not be America in my opinion.

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Oct 12, 2008

When jobs get tight, then foreign nurses will add to the problem for nurses already here. They will increase the leverage of hospitals and nursing homes in contract negotiations and undercut the collective bargaining power of nurses. They lessen the opportunities available to nurses in the United States by taking some of those jobs.

It's basic mathematics. Nobody is saying "We hate foreigners" but we realize what happens in the employer/employee relationship when there is an over abundance of available workers.

suzanne4, RN · Oct 12, 2008

It is not a point of fingerprinting but pure economics and nothing more.

The retrogression from a couple of years ago had nothing to do with the green cards that have been pushed over the past four years or so and the last retrogression only affected those from the PIC countries. And they were affected only for one very specific reason, there were many more from those three countries that were applying for visas, and nothing to do with what was going on with the US economy. Nurses from other countries were actually getting here in less than a year from start to finish of their processing for immigration. The retrogression from eight years ago and the other ones thru the years were not specific to nurses and their green cards, but to the H1-B visas at the time. Things have changed over the last five years drastically, what was done before had nothing specific to do with nurses. There actually have been two periods that I remember over the years where nurses did not get any type of visa for the US for a period of about five years each time. Things do change at times in the US and they are changing again now, as they are in most other countries as well.

The other issue is that a large number of other countries will not permit an American to get licensed there or get a visa for a job either, and this is not anything new over the past year but has been in place for sometime. The Philippines actually requires that one hold Philippine citizenship to be able to write the licensing exam for there, even if they trained there from another country; the UK requires a three year residency before they will permit a foreigner into most of their nursing schools. They also essentially have a hiring freeze in place alon with the rest of the EU where jobs must go first to those from that country, and then to citizens of other EU countries first; so the US nurses are at the third rung on their list as well.

And this was before the meltdown of the past two weeks.

At this point in time when facilities are having lay-offs and hiring freezes and cannot start an American working, then they most certainly cannot bring over a foreign nurse to fill a position. Job offer letters that are submitted to the US government are only that; if there is no job job available when the turn for the visa comes up, then there is no way for them to get the green card or any other visa. It costs over $10,000 extra for each and every foreign nurse that is brought to the US, one can easily do the math as to how many Americans could be trained with this very same money and in less time to even be actually working in the US as an RN right now.

And this is not anything new that I have been saying, it is actually what has been going on for sometime, it is just becoming more evident.

fudgeremedy · Oct 12, 2008

what is LTC by the way?

PeachPie · Oct 12, 2008

I've said many times here, there are jobs in LTC. You can get your start there then make the switch when prospects improve. Or relocate if possible.
These things go in cycles. The same thing happened when I was in nursing school, I went straight to LTC, down the road the job market opened up and I switched to acute care. As possiblities opened up, I took them and ended up with enough experience to work agency.

Amen. I'm "paying my dues" by working LTAC, and I actually get paid more than my fellow graduates at major hospitals. It's not the experience that a major hospital will give, but hopefully they'll consider me in 6 months. Once I started looking outside the city limits at smaller, less advertised facilities, the job offers came rolling in.

deleern · Oct 12, 2008

what is LTC by the way?

Long Term Care/nursing home.

deleern · Oct 12, 2008

Is there any dowside to starting off in LTC? Somewhere else on the site made it seem like if you started off there you would have to stay since it is different from hospital nursing- is this true?

Now that Hospitals don't keep Patients as long as they did in the past, we seem to have more Ill patients than ever before... Right now in the nursing home where I work. I have 3 pick lines on Cad pumps, I have Residents on IV's I do all the labs draws, Many surgical Dressing Changes, all the assessments, I see that increasing over time. And I work 8 to 5 so I do not see that as a down side

hellerd2003, RN · Oct 12, 2008

hi everyone...Lately its been on the news about the status of U.S economy..I don't know if how bad it is as connected to us nurses planning to work there? Any opinion guys? Do you think this crisis will take long and worsen the no. of visa released?

A lot of our part time/ per diem nurses are grabbing additional hours, and experienced nurses who had left nursing for another career (i.e., real estate) are returning to nursing. This seems to make it more difficult for new grads to get positions, because if the hospital can hire an experienced RN, why train the new grads? (I don't agree with that mentality, but it's just the way it is.) Nursing schools, at least the state ones, are in a hiring freeze. Whether that results in fewer students, or poorly prepared students due to overwork educators remains to be seen. Finally, we're seeing a ton of patients come in who are uninsured, and the physicians all say it's going to get even worse as people lose jobs and/ or cannot afford their premiums. Hospitals are already strugging to save the bottom line, and I guarantee that any health care cuts that need to be made will be felt at a bedside level. We've already been told that we may be expected to take 3 ICU's, or 6 intermediate level patients, if need be.

Nursing is not recession proof. True, we have a bit more job security, since sick people will always be around, but don't think we won't feel it all too. Unfortunately, economic hardship in a crashing GLOBAL environment generally knows no boundaries and doesn't discriminate (unless you're way beyond "wealthy").

Vito Andolini · Oct 12, 2008

I hope I'm wrong but I think we ain't seen nothin' yet. I think it will be as bad as or worse than the Great Depression of the '30's. Can you say "Hooverville"?

lpnflorida, LPN · Oct 12, 2008

I got to thinking about this earlier today. With the economic downturn and people's loss of jobs. Is it possible that those who have loved ones in nursing homes will they now make the decision to bring them back into their homes to care for as 1. they aren't working 2. their loved ones ss. would be a means of providing a small income

pagandeva2000, LPN · Oct 13, 2008

It is depressing just thinking and reading about the possiblities of this economic mess. I just pray that my family makes it through with no job loss and our health intact. And, I will pray for us all!