UPDATE on my battle with the GA LPN BON

[DogWmn]

I sent in my application, along with a nursing resume - that included my work history (19 years), my education including my CE's, all the states I've been licensed in (currently active in Ohio), a copy of the nursys report and a letter outlining everything. I also sent an additional packet requesting approval for a distance learning program with a side by side comparison and a list of why the program would work for me.

Both packets were sent by certified mail and were recieved today at 9:44AM. We'll see how long it takes to hear from them.

I also called the Prez of the LPN Board to let her know all had arrived and asked her help to "hurry it along" due to my dire financial situation, I told her - I could be taking the therory portion right now (online). The BON only meets 6 times a year and sometimes they will meet via phone on the off months - January being an off month. She also told me they really have nothing on the agenda right now, so it could be the middle of February before I even hear anything .

I also called my State Representative to give him an update and complain about the antiquated system - lets move into the current century - no one on the board or any of the staff even have email:eek:. I think they communicate via string and paper cup :icon_roll.

So everyone keep their fingers, toes and anything else crossed that this moves through rapidly, I will still face several months of refresher, but I'd at least like to get started:cool:.

[caliotter3]

{{{DogWmn}}}

[DogWmn]

It's taken me several days to calm down enough to add an update. First, I sent an email to the GA LPN BON requesting info on what is missing per my phone conversation with the dolt at the Secretary of State's office on 1/28. I have yet to hear back from them (it's been over a week). On Friday I got an vague email from the same dolt reminding me the BON meets on 2/10 and please have all your info to the BON:madface:. Now how can I have all the info to them if I don't know what's missing:banghead:. To the best of my knowledge my application is complete. I again called my state rep, and requested that I be allowed to talk with an actual staff member at the BON who is handling my application so I can identify the "missing" info and try to provide it by 2/10. I got more run around and he said to call and email him again on Monday:banghead:.

I have this sinking feeling I will not be allowed to take the refresher and they have been scamming me and I have wasted time and money that I don't have waiting on them to decide my fate.

The "rule" at the BON is they have 25 days to respond to my application, my 25th day will be the day AFTER the BON meets, so in otherwords, it's a catch 22, somethings missing, please provide what ever it is, but they don't have to tell me what it is until the day after they meet.

I would then have to wait another 2 months for the next meeting of the BON:madface:.

My frustration level of dealing with these people have driven me to beyond really pissed off and it's all I can do to talk with them in a civil manner. Over the years I have dealt with many BON's and this is the only one who is not helpful.

My state rep was also nasty in our last phone conversation, he asked since I've been unemployed for so long WHY don't I have a job by now...uhhh hello are you living under a rock there's a huge recession going on and I'd be glad to show you my piles of rejection letters, emails and a list of all the places I've sent my resume to - down a black hole. He then asked why I just started this license inquiry... I went on to 'splain to him that I've been working on this for 18 months, contacting the worthless Sec of State office since that is the only phone number provided to contact the BON, I had called the countless times asking about refresher courses, in state, out of state, what if I do this, do that, what about this and that. They then finally refered me to the Gov's office and that was months of phone tag more what if I's and a finally we can do nothing for you contact your state senator and state rep, so that's when I contacted YOU last September!:smackingf:madface:. He then asked if I would be attending the BON meeting...um first I've heard that I can but even if I could, it's hundreds of miles away and I'd have to stay over night so no $$$ for gas, I've got zero tread on my tires and no $$$ for a hotel room. I had no idea that I could or should attend until 2/5:banghead:.

I have developed a "plan B" if this doesn't work, I will continue to take my CE's required for the Ohio BON to keep my license active in that state and I have recently found a little 4 week phlebotomy course at one of those private schools that I can get a national certification that will start at the end of the month. I can take that and hope I can get a job sticking folks...LOL, don't anyone panic, I've got over 5 years experience doing just that as a clinic nurse everyone from just discharged premies to the elderly and obese (I was the go to person for hard to do sticks:D). When I talked to the director of the program, an RN with a gazillion letters after her name and told her of my dilemma and my extensive experience, she offered me a job TEACHING THE CLASS:rolleyes:. Too bad it's only part time and not enough to even pay for gas...LOL. Once I get a job, there is a 2 quarter Med Lab Tech course at the CC that I might take if I can get the employer to pay for so I can do simple lab tests...again, as a clinic nurse I've already performed many of these tests:rolleyes:. I have to take microbiology for the 3rd time:mad:. In this state all credits expire after 5 years.

All of the local hospitals have jobs for phlebotomists and IV techs, it blows me away that they have people with little formal education on IV teams doing peripheral IV's, it sez right on the job specs education requirements: High School Diploma:eek:. Yikes, but hopefully someone will be happy to have me since I have years of experience yah I'm a bit rusty but certainly better than someone with little to no formal training.

So anyway, this is my latest update, nothing new except more and more frustration trying to deal with the BON. I'd also like to take a moment to thank SUE for taking the time to talk with me, sometimes I feel so all alone dealing with these people, it was nice to talk with someone who is in the nursing profession and "gets" what I'm going through so a big shout out and thanks to Sue...:hug:

[SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN]

Fingers crossed, honey.

[DogWmn]

So today, 2 days before the @#%&* Board meets, I find out that 1. I do not have to complete the theory portion before starting the clinical portion even though the approved SD program sez yah do. I got "well this is GA and you don't have to":banghead: and I would know this how????:argue: 2. I just found out I have to fill out "form A" that I don't have a copy of and have no idea what it iz. 3. I've tried to explain over and over that the nursing facilities I've contacted will not talk with me about doing a clinical until I'm approved for the program, yet they want a clinical site and all the t's and i's doted BEFORE they approve me...can we say catch 22.

It's like it's all a big secret as to what they want, yah gotta do it but what ever it is that you gotta do is welll, yah just gotta do it.

It's looking pretty bad right now, unless by some miracle I get a call and someone sez sure, I'm screwed. It would have been nice if I could have had someone to shepherd me through the process or have it written out in plain step by step instructions what was required when and some examples provided.

One of the people I talked with today said, you have a license so why don't you go to work in a fed facility, yes I KNOW that, and I have applied (thanks for that worthless tip).

My head hurts:crying2:

[xoemmylouox, ASN, RN]

I cannot believe how much they are putting you through. This is insane. I have never heard of something so crazy!! Good luck to you...

[DogWmn]

The last two days have been a whirlwind nightmare. So as I said on Monday I find out about "form A" and that I would not be approved if I didn't have a facility lined up. Well shortly after that phone call, I got a call back from a facility I'd been trying to contact, two SNF's owned by a regional hospital. The education person called and I 'splained my dilemma and emailed her form A and the URL to the program's web site. At 9:00am on Tuesday she called me back and they AGREED to let me take my clinical at one of their SNF's!!!!! She then told me who to call at the SNF and I actually got a hold of her and she asked if I could come in and meet with the Administrator and DON at 3:00pm - you betcha (I didn't say it like that...LOL). I put together a package for them of the program skills check list, my Proposed Schedule and the lovely form A. It was a good meeting, they were both very receptive and in the end the DON said she'd sign, scan and email form A to the appropriate members of the BON:yeah:.

So I rushed home to email the info to her and asked if she would either call or email me to let me know when she sent it off....It got to them just before 5:00PM:up: A big YEESSSSS!!!!

So unless there's more stuff out there like the late appearing form A, the BON has everything they've requested of me, that I spent hours on the phone trying to get clarification on all this stuff. They will meet today and tomorrow. What really sucks, is I had requested from the Prez of the LPN BON to give me either a verbal or email about if I'm approved or not ASAP, as I could get started paying for the program and getting the materials shipped, ordering books and supplies etc. ANNNDDDD of course again I run into obstructionist and obtuse 'tude....we don't do it that way, you will hear in 7-10 business days that means I won't know anything until the end of the month...I again pleaded for at least a heads up so I can get moving on all the things I will need to do....another:banghead:. This also means I will miss the deadline for my plan B of phlebotomy school, I can't afford to pay for both:madface:.

Oh and a 'nother thaing, the DON called me back to let me know she'd sent the signed and scanned form A and we talked a bit about the program and both agreed we could do it "our way" the GA BON wants me to start clinicals right away yet the programs all say you must complete the theory first. So anyway, I told her I'd really prefer to be at least 1/2 way though the theory portion and she agreed:D. AND this is big AND...she admitted that when she came to GA with a solid background, years of experience etc. it took her months and months to get her license...she hates the BON too:D. The Administrator was also very confused a bit agrivated that I held an active license in another state and could not get a license in GA.

I have already decided that if they do not approve me I'm going to our local TV station whistle blower to see if they will do a story on what I went through and how many many nurses are leaving GA, there is also hordes of Excesior Grads who've passed the nclex-rn and can't get licensed in this state (there is actually two at the facility I'll be training at!) because they were too far down the road to quit when GA abruptly changed the law on them.

I hope everyone reads this and knows that you need to do what ever it takes to keep your license active.

Also, if you are thinking of moving to GA - DON'T.

So everyone I'm asking for positive thoughts and prayers to go out to the BON that they will approve me. For now there is nothing more I can do, it's all a waiting game now.

[sibelian]

While I'm not unsympathetic to anyone who wants to work, I have to say that I think you're demonizing the Georgia BON unfairly and needlessly.

From what I can gather from your multiple postings, you were out of practical nursing for 18 years when you decided, for economic reasons, to re-enter the job market. Georgia had made a policy decision that anyone unlicensed for more than 10 years needed to re-take the LPN course in order to qualify for a license. You didn't like that policy. Personally, I think that policy is sound; concepts in nursing change so fast that anyone not practicing on a daily basis is going to find themselves "out of it" after a few years; 18 years is an eternity in nursing. But regardless of what I think, or you think, states are entitled to make rational policy decisions in order to protect various classes of citizens. I don't think that Georgia's initial policy was irrational.

Then you got licensed in Ohio, and then Georgia changed their policy (in YOUR favor) to consider such cases (i.e., people out of practice for more than 10 years) on a case-by-case basis, with a requirement that you do an in-state clinical "refresher" program. Again, sounds like a rational policy to me, but you again disliked the decision and complained that your having to find a willing sponsor and propose the details in writing was onerous. You also seem to want an instant decision, as though the board's only agenda item is your re-entry application.

While I hope that the board approves you, reading the minutiae of your daily interactions and phone calls about this was tedious beyond belief. I don't work for the Georgia BON, and I don't even live in Georgia. I'm just an RN who thinks that boards and other governmental units have a right to make decisions (like excluding Excelsior grads from licensing) that are rational and not applied arbitrarily; the fact that some people are adversely affected by those decisions is unavoidable, but hardly unfair.

[DogWmn]

While I'm not unsympathetic to anyone who wants to work, I have to say that I think you're demonizing the Georgia BON unfairly and needlessly.

YOU haven't had to deal with them. There are many other posts on here about how awful this particular BON is and it's both the RN and the LPN BON's.

From what I can gather from your multiple postings, you were out of practical nursing for 18 years when you decided, for economic reasons, to re-enter the job market. Georgia had made a policy decision that anyone unlicensed for more than 10 years needed to re-take the LPN course in order to qualify for a license. You didn't like that policy. Personally, I think that policy is sound; concepts in nursing change so fast that anyone not practicing on a daily basis is going to find themselves "out of it" after a few years; 18 years is an eternity in nursing. But regardless of what I think, or you think, states are entitled to make rational policy decisions in order to protect various classes of citizens. I don't think that Georgia's initial policy was irrational.

Georgia is the ONLY state that had that policy, there are RN's in this state have been out for much longer than I have and they are allowed without any of the fight I've been through in the last 18 months to breeze right through a refresher program. Sooo as an RN what your saying is that if you or any other nurse RN or LPN should repeat a whole program if they've been out having kids, taking a break or for what ever reason???? The whole point of a refresher program is to update our skills and every other state allows nurses to complete a refresher without all the BS I've been through.

Then you got licensed in Ohio, and then Georgia changed their policy (in YOUR favor) to consider such cases (i.e., people out of practice for more than 10 years) on a case-by-case basis, with a requirement that you do an in-state clinical "refresher" program. Again, sounds like a rational policy to me, but you again disliked the decision and complained that your having to find a willing sponsor and propose the details in writing was onerous. You also seem to want an instant decision, as though the board's only agenda item is your re-entry application.

You have mis understood, the problem is what they want me to do has never been clearly defined by the BON, trying to get correct info from this BON is beyond difficult it's near impossible. I have no problem with taking a refresher but I don't think I should have had to jump through all these hoops for the last 18 months. In any other state I would have been able to take a course and be back to work with out all the BS.

While I hope that the board approves you, reading the minutiae of your daily interactions and phone calls about this was tedious beyond belief. I don't work for the Georgia BON, and I don't even live in Georgia. I'm just an RN who thinks that boards and other governmental units have a right to make decisions (like excluding Excelsior grads from licensing) that are rational and not applied arbitrarily; the fact that some people are adversely affected by those decisions is unavoidable, but hardly unfair.

So don't read it, there are plenty of threads I don't read on this board because I'm not interested. I'm sharing what I'm going through because I want nurses thinking of moving here to understand how ridiculous, obstructive and obtuse the GA BON is and to be aware. I have heard from many LPN's and RN's with their own horror stories of dealing with the GA BON's (thanks to this thread) and because of these stories I've gathered I have been able to be a part of making the change. I have also been asked to testify at state level hearings because of all of this. I would never recommend anyone move to this state until this board's policies and attitudes change.

In this state the BON is autonomous, they answer to no one, not the Secretary of State's office, not the Governor or any other enity and have been allowed to run wild and get away with BS that no other BON has. I won't bother going into things like them ignoring legislation that has been passed over a year ago and they don't like it so they are not implementing it or choosing only to implement portions of a bill. Many of the State Reps and Senators have been and are still unaware that this BON's policies, procedures and attitudes are running nurses off, if they can, they are leaving the state, I believe they and the public should be made aware of this.

This thread is about one persons fight with the GA BON, so again, don't read it if you find it "tedious beyond belief"

[sibelian]

Actually, I HAVE dealt with the GA BON; they took three weeks to process my application for licensure by endorsement. While I disliked the requirement that I personally come to Georgia to have my fingerprints taken at a GAPS location, I can't argue with either the Board's right to impose such a requirement or their rationale for imposing such a requirement.

It doesn't matter that GA is the only state that had such a policy (although I doubt you researched each state's laws and rules); if GA wants to be stricter about qualifications than any other state, it is entirely within GA's right to be so. And I also think it's rational to treat RNs and LPNs differently, for reasons related to the greater responsibilities that RNs have in direct patient care. And 18 years is way more than "taking a break"; yes, for whatever the reason, if someone has been out of practice for 10 years or longer, the "refresher" course had better be comprehensive, lengthy, and intense.

I understand perfectly what happened: an agency changed their policy, in part due to complaints by you, and needed time to figure out how to implement the policy. Of course you don't think you should have jumped through all those hoops; you would have preferred to simply make the policy yourself, apply it to yourself, and approve yourself. That's not how government works. Most regulatory boards of whatever nature in most states are autonomous; otherwise they would be subject to political whims depending on the party in power. In my experience, the GA BON hasn't been ridiculous, obstructive, or obtuse at all. Nurses are "leaving the state" ?!? Most nurses only deal with the Board when they renew their licenses. Where's your proof of this mass exodus ?

Personal vendettas are never pretty.

[DogWmn]

"Personal vendettas are never pretty"

This is not a personal vendetta, this is about equality, but since you do not believe in that:

"I also think it's rational to treat RNs and LPNs differently"

The ability to take a refresher course has nothing to do with "greater responsibilities", or scope of practice, it is equality I'm seeking for the ability to take a refresher without all the BS I've had to deal with. It is not just about me it's about the right of any GA LPN to take a refresher course without all the BS.

"Where's your proof of this mass exodus?"

There are several threads in the GA forum dealing with just this, also, as I said because of this thread, many have contacted me privately and I will respect their privacy, also, in dealing with the nurse advocate she has stated statistics, again due to privacy I am not at liberty to reveal at this time, if your so interested, do your own research as I have.

"Actually, I HAVE dealt with the GA BON; they took three weeks to process my application for licensure by endorsement." Well you were lucky, and I'll say this, that's strange since in your prior post you stated:

"I don't work for the Georgia BON, and I don't even live in Georgia"

I have had to fight just to get basic information about the paper work they required. They told me my application was 'incomplete' yet refused to identify what was missing in a timely fashion. I do not consider 2 days before the BON meets timely to inform me about another "form" they had not told me about nor had posted on their website. The BON requires LPN's to take a refresher if they've been out for more than 5 years, so all of their policies and procedures are already in place and have been for quite sometime, yet they refused to provide me with information that I needed without me "jumping through hoops" and my point is, this should not be necessary, the information should be provided without all the hassle and BS. It should be; "oh yes, and you must fill out these forms and have this and that in place." The information should be transparent and readily available for those who want to take a course.

"although I doubt you researched each state's laws and rules"

As a matter of fact I have my previous job was as a legal researcher, I have contacted and worked with NAPNES and NFLPN on numerous occasions, I have spoken to the OR, CO, OH, TX, ID, SC, SD, WA, and NM BON's directly. I have also utilized the following interactive map to read about each BON's requirements for LPN's to re-activate their licenses:http://www.board-of-nursing.com/idaho-board-of-nursing.php. Each state has different requirements but at the time I did my research NONE of them require an LPN or RN to repeat a whole program if they graduated from an acredited school and passed the boards and have x amount of experience. So yes, I have done research and because of this research I was able to present a paper to my State Representative and Senator outlining the disparity of the GA LPN BON. I have also been working with my state LPN association, we will be sending out letters to lapsed LPN's to let them know of the policy change, they have no way of knowing how many LPN's called the BON about a refresher and were told they must repeat the whole program and gave up knowing it was beyond their financial capabilities and or time constraints or for what ever reason.

I will ask that you start a new thread if you want to continue to discuss these issues instead of hijacking this one. I started this thread as a personal journey and would like to keep it so.

[sibelian]

It's telling that you throw off the term "hijacking" to the sole person who is providing another perspective to your soap opera. What comes through, despite your best efforts to portray otherwise, is this: in a state where there are 33,000+ active licensed LPNs and 100,000 active licensed RNs, all governed by a state board which likely has a staff of about a dozen people and which deals with more urgent matters like impaired and incompetent nurses, you (who hasn't worked as a nurse in 18 years) waltz in and demand that long-standing rational policies be changed, and when they are, you demand instant action, feigning disbelief when told that you aren't permitted to speak to a staff member (thank god, you'd badger them to suicide), or that you'll get an answer in 25 days (which sounds more than reasonable to me).

Lapsed nurses, especially those who haven't practiced in more than 10 years, should be required to take something more substantial than a "refresher" course ... a 3-credit semester-long college-level course with a clinical component might be more appropriate, and I applaud the GA board for taking its time to consider the merits of your individual application.

In a prior post, you tell how someone else described you as "tenacious". That's not the precise word I would have used. Regardless, I've made my point and you can have your thread back. Good luck ... I think you're gonna need it.

[caliotter3]

Please let us know how things turn out.