After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"
In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.
I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.
Michele
I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.
My dh and I have seriously talked about chucking it all & moving to Finland - education, healthcare, and housing are all free or at least affordable, mothers get 9mo paid maternity leave (unpaid x 3 YEARS if they choose), fathers get leave as well, public transportation is nice and safe, the people are far healthier than here, and their kids blasted US kids out of the water on intelligence tests.
I don't mind higher taxes going to pay for things like these. I have a problem with my taxes going to line my politicians' pockets when it's not clear that they even represent me.
This is my thought, exactly. Although is sounds great in theory, we have to do A LOT of research before we take the plunge and move to a foreign country. I don't want to wind up in the middle of nowhere, scratching my head and thinking to myself, "OMG! WHAT HAVE I DONE??!!" :uhoh21:
I'm not the smartest cookee in the jar, but has anyone looked at England, where they wait months to years to see a doctor or dentist, and pull their own teeth with plyers? That is universal health care at work. I have my reservations about letting Uncle Sam control my health care. :nuke:
I'm skeptical about things I hear on TV read in the paper, etc... but I watched Michael More's Sicko last week and it truly struck a chord with me. If you haven't seen it yet, I would highly recommend buying or renting the DVD. It openeded my eyes wide regarding the horror stories we hear about people waiting for, ie., an acute cholecystitis in need of surgical intervention.
Perhaps it's our own gov't putting these ideas into our heads. Keeping the people afraid keeps them submissive. This is the highest form of terrorism I can imagine.
it would seem from reading most of the posts, that universal health care is not really the problem, it is the administration or the government. universal healthcare models are in existence and successful in many countries.
why not learn from others?
exactly!!
by the way... i just heard that the iraq war has cost the us threetrillion dollars! did anyone mention universal health care?
could you imagine if we spent this money on our own citizen's healthcare and other necessities of daily living??
I'm not the smartest cookee in the jar, but has anyone looked at England, where they wait months to years to see a doctor or dentist, and pull their own teeth with plyers? That is universal health care at work. I have my reservations about letting Uncle Sam control my health care. :nuke:
The evidence does not support this assertion. See:
Furthermore, the NHS outperforms the US (non)system on almost every dimension.
We should ask what other countries are doing right and use that to inform our own redesign of the health care system.
The point is that most UHC activists are not attempting to put Uncle Sam in charge. The best single payer proposals have a federal funding stream IN PLACE OF PREMIUMS and the plans are state managed. The mixed partnership models envision the OPTION for businesses and individuals to purchase coverage directly from Medicare.
Well that wouldn't be biased, sanitized and propagandist would it?
See if you can get hold of the photojournal, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot by Ashley Gilbertson. It has some of the most heart wrenching photos and stories of the US soldiers and what they are being forced to go through and do. Some of the images can be googled.
In response to your post, health needs are the hub and food shelter clothing are the spokes healthy people can be productive, healthy people can contribute to betterment of american society. Yes maslows heirchery of law I understand but Ahealthy nation is a productive nation Mind,Body and Soul.
In response to your post, health needs are the hub and food shelter clothing are the spokes healthy people can be productive, healthy people can contribute to betterment of american society. Yes maslows heirchery of law I understand but Ahealthy nation is a productive nation Mind,Body and Soul.
Absolutely, CITCAT!!
Why does'nt the government realize this??
Oh oooh, I know ~ if our nation is populated with healthy people, there may be anarchy and the government as we know it will fall; just like the Berlin wall!
With the government meeting ALL YOUR NEEDS, however, there is no motivation to do more. THAT is the chief flaw in socialism. WHO is going to provide all these services once nobody has to work anymore?
THERE is NO FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT to the services of others.
Katie91
79 Posts
This is my thought, exactly. Although is sounds great in theory, we have to do A LOT of research before we take the plunge and move to a foreign country. I don't want to wind up in the middle of nowhere, scratching my head and thinking to myself, "OMG! WHAT HAVE I DONE??!!" :uhoh21: