I am still reeling from it. I have heard of these cases but never seen one up close. The pt has had a long struggle with a mysterious condition that no one could figure out. He was the nicest man. Everyone felt very sorry for his health struggles. just very shocking how anyone can do this to themselves. It would be so incredibly painful. Until he was presented with the evidence (they searched the room and founds lots of it!) he denied everything and acted like he didn't know what they were talking about. He just had a drastic, disabling surgery today because of the injuries he caused. His family is devastated. His nurses are hurt and angry. Just so many feelings.
There was a case on my on-line tube-feeding support board (I am the parent of a tube-feeder) that also caused waves. A little girl severely underweight, multiple GI surgeries, central line, TPN, catheter, who knows what else. She was arrested for putting feces into all her daughter's tubes and wounds. The girl had all the tubes removed and started eating and growing finally, but will be physically and emotionally scarred for life. Ugh.
But to see it today for real, the shocking injuries that were self-inflicted over and over again, his family crying so hard to learn what's been going on. It's going to take me awhile to get over this.
I stopped going to church because I became sickened by the way my fellow Christians were slamming each other constantly. I'm a pre-nursing student now -- I wonder if I'm stepping into more of the same if i get into the nursing world. (Should I change majors at the age of 47?) Or is there another site that is more supportive of each other?
Just for the record, I work on a unit where we are all incredibly supportive and friendly to one another - always saying please and thankful, and always able to find someone willing to assist you with anything. We often bring each other little snacks or gifts and hang out outside of work on the regular. However, to be in the medical field, you need to be realistic. In you can't see the real world for what it is - brutal and in-your-face - then yes, perhaps you should go into accounting.
I don't believe in giving people false reassurances or beating around the bush. I won't lie to make others feel better, and in the end, people are grateful for that, even if they don't like it right off the bat. I can't tell you how many patients that I have had die right after the MD gave the family a sunny report. Sure, the cardiologist is thrilled that the patient's EF is improving, but if you ask the pulmonologist, you will find out the patient has ARDS. People are unable to cope if they don't have the correct outlook on the situation. The nursing industry is dominated by women. Just think about what happens when you get a bunch of women all on the same cycle together.
Also, in regards to the church comment: church is filled with people - HUMANS. If you are a Christian, you know that humans are by nature imperfect (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, etc, etc). You would do best to pray for these people rather than put them on a pedestal, judge them harshly, and then shun them. You are supposed to go to church for God, not for others. And, only God is supposed to be the one to judge. By holding their sins against them, you are harboring unforgiveness. Not being able to forgive means you can't be forgiven. Good luck with that.
munchausen's pts have about as much mental illness as a serial killer. there is obviously something wrong for them to act in such a manner, but there is no physiological chemical imbalance such as bipolar d/o or schizophrenia.
Also, in regards to the church comment: church is filled with people - HUMANS. If you are a Christian, you know that humans are by nature imperfect (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, etc, etc). You would do best to pray for these people rather than put them on a pedestal, judge them harshly, and then shun them. You are supposed to go to church for God, not for others. And, only God is supposed to be the one to judge. By holding their sins against them, you are harboring unforgiveness. Not being able to forgive means you can't be forgiven. Good luck with that.
Seriously?! I have to say that is a good example of why walomom doesn't want to go to church anymore, because of judgemental statements like that. But religion is a topic for another place.
The discussion of whether mentally ill patients are evil or not is surely a never ending debate, but what is important is to realize that our feelings do affect our behaviour. No matter how professional we think we may be, we will never be able to give the same kind of care to a patient we despise and a patient we love. By bringing our religous views into our daily nursing can affect our ability as nurses to be rational and affect how we care for our patients.
There is a school of thought that holds that no person is evil, that only acts may be properly considered evil. Psychologist and mediator Marshall Rosenberg claims that the root of violence is the very concept of "evil" or "badness." When we label someone as bad or evil, Rosenberg claims, it invokes the desire to punish or inflict pain. It also makes it easy for us to turn off our feelings towards the person we are harming. He cites the use of language in Nazi Germany as being a key to how the German people were able to do things to other human beings that they normally would not do. He links the concept of evil to our judicial system, which seeks to create justice via punishment—"punitive justice"—punishing acts that are seen as bad or wrong. He contrasts this approach with what he found in cultures where the idea of evil was non-existent. In such cultures, when someone harms another person, they are believed to be out of harmony with themselves and their community, they are seen as sick or ill and measures are taken to restore them to a sense of harmonious relations with themselves and others, as opposed to punishing them.
I didn't see the original wording, so I don't know how it read before it was changed/updated.
We had a frequent flier that we suspected had Munchausen syndrome. She was caught a few times messing with her wounds, etc, but for the most part we could not prove it and she would not admit to anything, so we could not get her the proper help. Psych referals pretty much went nowhere because she would not cooperate in terms of that (she talked about the stressors in her life, but not about being at fault in any way for her medical condition). There wasn't *enough* to do anything involuntarily, so it was difficult. Anyway.
It is natural to react to something, even if you know it's beyond that person's control. Munchausen's is one example. You can feel duped, fooled, angry, saddened, whatever....that's normal. The Munchausen's itself is an illness, but knowing and understanding that doesn't automatically mean you're not going to have a reaction, that's NORMAL. Keeping that reaction from the patient is key. Take a more simple example. You work in LTC, with a resident with advanced dementia who is combative. Every day. Every time you take their dentures out, they try to bite you, they spit at you, they cuss at you. You know that this isn't really "them," it's a result of their illness. However, that doesn't mean that on a rough day, you can't be frustrated by it, or annoyed by it. We recently had a patient with a history of TBI who had NO short term memory. She would ask the same questions literally over and over again. This wasn't her fault. I know this. That doesn't mean it didn't wear on us. We answered her questions, we reassured her, we did the best we could. She didn't see that sometimes, yes, we got annoyed. We're HUMANS, not saints. Answering the same question 100 times a night would irritate anyone, even if the patient can't help it. I'll admit that, if it makes me a bad person, so be it, I guess.
Hope this makes sense, in the context of the thread.
I stopped going to church because I became sickened by the way my fellow Christians were slamming each other constantly. I'm a pre-nursing student now -- I wonder if I'm stepping into more of the same if i get into the nursing world. (Should I change majors at the age of 47?) Or is there another site that is more supportive of each other?
No, don't change majors. And don't buy into the myth of nurses eating their young - we have a whole sticky thread devoted to that. :)
I've either been lucky or slamming folks is not as popular as people think. Not in church or in nursing or in education or in the local grocery store. I really think jerks are in the minority in every walk of life.
This is an interesting thread - I'm all for nurses being able to come here and vent about things. We need an outlet to be able to be honest.
I can understand being frustrated and let down by this patient. We had one here that most of the nursing staff and physicians invested a lot of time (years) with. It did feel like we got a punch to the gut - but we didn't let that change our treatment of the patient. We are nurses and our patients' advocates first. Even if they irritate us or make us mad.
One of the first questions I was asked as a nursing student was to identify my biases and acknowledge them so when I was confronted with a patient who tweaked those things I could recognize what I was feeling and nip it in the bud and be professional.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
walomom;4106891]Man, you guys are hard on each other!
The topics that rile us up most are the same hot buttons that rile up society as a whole. Nurses often are on the front lines of the fallout, good or bad. Open and honest discussion is a good thing. Yes, sometimes we overstep, but the same 2 people could be kudo-ing the heck out of each other on a different topic. Would it be better to plaster on a smiley-face and seethe inside?
I stopped going to church because I became sickened by the way my fellow Christians were slamming each other constantly.
I'm a pre-nursing student now -- I wonder if I'm stepping into more of the same if i get into the nursing world. (Should I change majors at the age of 47?)
I guess that depends on what you currently visualize the nursing profession to be. If you have an idealized view of it, better to find out now.
Or is there another site that is more supportive of each other?
I don't know, but I wish I had this site when I was in nursing school. All the doubts, little traumas, and mis-perceptions I had, I never talked to anyone about. Hence, I thought I was an oddball. Now I know differently. There are thousands of threads here, and many of them quite supportive. Look around, it's not so bad!!
I stopped going to church because I became sickened by the way my fellow Christians were slamming each other constantly. I'm a pre-nursing student now -- I wonder if I'm stepping into more of the same if i get into the nursing world. (Should I change majors at the age of 47?) Or is there another site that is more supportive of each other?
welcome, walomom.
to answer your question, no, you will not find a more supportive nsg site.
while there will always be posts/threads that tell it like it is, there are many more that are sickingly and obnoxiously loving, supportive and tender.:)
you really should take a look around.
there are as many topics as there are personalities.
please, don't get discouraged just yet.
having thousands of members means more support and more hugs than you know what to do with.
Hi and my apologies as I have skipped a few pages of this forum. I will not reveal details just to say that we have a "frequent flier" at our institution. This person is an MD. Has caused so much illness- low blood count. Endless wounds that don't get better. This pt is not working- a good thing. Has endured terrible pain with infected buttock wounds that drip horrible drainage. One day I take care of pt and wounds look ok. The next day, I'm gagging about green/yellow drainage. How did this happen? This pt is very humble and in so much pain. Has been confronted by psych and admitted to some of what has been experienced. Why does someone inflict so much pain? This pt does not put on call light. Does not call out for ordered pain meds. I have so much empathy as to not know why she is suffering. Brilliant (sorry, know you know is a female). I am thankful that those I work with are compassionate. This person has/had such a hopeful future. So sad.... For those of you who are in question? Yep. It's munchauson but not by proxy. That is when a caregiver harms another- usually a child. So, I do support this person. She is only harming herself. She needs help.
I agree- if a child is involved a very different issue. Anger and frustration. That is:
Munchausen by proxy meaning that another person (child) is at risk for harm.
I've wanted to be a nurse since I was 10, been married for almost 27 years, have 8 children. During each of those 8 births/pre-natal care appts. most of my nurses were my heroes. The kind and compassionate care I received inspired me all along the way to want to be that for someone else. (And the lousy nurses taught me how I DON'T want to be.)
Tonight my A&P prof told a story to our class about how an old friend (and exceptional doctor) was recovering quickly from surgery, but when his doc said to him that he'd probably die, quickly took a turn for the worse and died. "Really think twice before you take all hope away from a patient" he warned us. "I've seen recoveries I never would have expected, so you never know." Nobody asked him a question that prompted this story, but I felt it was very timely given a response my post elicited.
I hope I never extinguish hope -- or become cynical.
daeanaira
26 Posts
Just for the record, I work on a unit where we are all incredibly supportive and friendly to one another - always saying please and thankful, and always able to find someone willing to assist you with anything. We often bring each other little snacks or gifts and hang out outside of work on the regular. However, to be in the medical field, you need to be realistic. In you can't see the real world for what it is - brutal and in-your-face - then yes, perhaps you should go into accounting.
I don't believe in giving people false reassurances or beating around the bush. I won't lie to make others feel better, and in the end, people are grateful for that, even if they don't like it right off the bat. I can't tell you how many patients that I have had die right after the MD gave the family a sunny report. Sure, the cardiologist is thrilled that the patient's EF is improving, but if you ask the pulmonologist, you will find out the patient has ARDS. People are unable to cope if they don't have the correct outlook on the situation. The nursing industry is dominated by women. Just think about what happens when you get a bunch of women all on the same cycle together.
Also, in regards to the church comment: church is filled with people - HUMANS. If you are a Christian, you know that humans are by nature imperfect (For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, etc, etc). You would do best to pray for these people rather than put them on a pedestal, judge them harshly, and then shun them. You are supposed to go to church for God, not for others. And, only God is supposed to be the one to judge. By holding their sins against them, you are harboring unforgiveness. Not being able to forgive means you can't be forgiven. Good luck with that.