Okay, stupid one first. As you can tell from my handle, I am a Canadian nurse. I have my RN diploma that I got at a community college. Here in Canada, we have RNs with a diploma, RN with a Bachelor's (BScN or BN), as well as Masters, Nurse Practitioner and even Doctorate. Now I see all the American nurses talking about diploma and ADN....what in the world is the difference???
Question two: I'm a 51 year old crusty old nurse without a degree. I have going on 29 years experience in everything from gerontology to pediatrics to pharmaceutical and then some. I'm asked all the time if I'm going to go for my degree. I always answer "why?" I have no plans to retire yet (if ever...I'm sure I'll drop dead with a stethoscope around my neck) and my experience counts for a lot. IMO going for my degree (online) would be a waste of both my time and money. Sure, I've been turned down for jobs that I could do in my sleep because of my lack of degree...but if they don't want me, then it's their loss. Is there anyone else out there like me? Simply not interested in getting that coveted degree. If so, have you been turned down for jobs because of it? Do you sometimes find that you're looked down on...for lack of a better term...because of it...especially from potential employers?
Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.
I'm another ADN who never had a burning desire to go back to school---no, make that NO desire. But I've done everything I ever wanted with my degree, including management and now LTC surveyor. I guess I'm one of the last of the dinosaurs who made it all the way through her career without feeling the lack of a BSN. :)
As rebnelsonh mentioned the prerequisite classes can easily add two years to any degree or diploma. It all seems a way for the colleges & universities to make as much money as possible from students. Unfortunately common sense & empathy can be not taught & is so important for most professionals. I consider myself so blessed that I got my diploma in Australia in 1991. Then I went back in 1997 & got my bachelors in nursing in one semester at the University of Sydney.
One of our nurses received a diploma several decades ago. She told me that she had to take chemistry, microbiology, and several other classes for her diploma. (USA)
Some advice, try to transition to RN BSN because many hospitals wont hire you without a bachelors degree. LPNs and ADN RNs mainly stay in nursing homes.
I would like to sit down with a hospital administrator and ask them what they feel is the difference between an ADN and BSN. I would really like to know if someone has sat down and looked at the cirriculumns and decided that an extra semester of prereqs that have nothing to do with your degree really matter. We sit for the same NCLEX, basically get paid the same. So why make me waste the money on the degree? It makes absolutely no sense and I think when I get through school and start interviewing for jobs this is a question I will ask HR.
CalRNtoBe2013 I think it is great that in your area you and your classmates had easy access to jobs straight out of your program, but unfortunately that is completely dependent on the area that you live and not all students are as lucky. Here in the greater Phoenix area most of us straight out of the ADN program had to fight long and hard even to get a job in a long term care facility. Hospitals rarely hire new grads around here because of the costs involved in training the brand new RNs. Even after a year or more of working long term care in order to get into a hospital I finally had to "pull a few strings" and managed to get in because I had a friend that worked on the unit. Many of my friends had to move out of state in order to get jobs. So in our area although there is always big news about nursing shortages at the hospitals, what they really mean is a shortage of EXPERIENCED nurses. I got my ADN in 2010 and I still have friends from that time that have not been able to get a job in the hospital environment.
I'm assuming you're from Pennsylvania.. There are a bunch of diploma schools around me and they are in the major hospital system, so getting a job is a lot easier. If we were to go else where in the country with our diploma, I expect we might run into some issues...
I'm an LPN who just graduated with a BSN. In the Nashville area there is only one hospital that requires a BSN for employment. The others prefer a BSN but will hire an ADN. The one hospital that requires it is a magnet hospital that is one of the top hospitals in the country.
The main difference in the ADN and BSN is that the BSN has additional training in evidence based practice while still in school. This dosn't mean that the BSN nurse is a better nurse it just means that they have additional training that goes beyond basic RN skills. Also if you want to get a masters degree then you must have your BSN.
Also I don't think there are any RN diploma programs in this area. They are becomming rare.
It's a painful process for the nursing profession to experience, but probably a necessary one as we continue to evolve to meet the challenges of the 21st century.
Ah...Okay. Now I get it. Thanks for the information. :)
QUOTE=Fiona59;7704583]Laura, I think you are a bit behind in the nursing education news. Currently the degree is the entry to practice point for all new grads, with the exception being Quebec (and we all know they are in their own little world). Alberta graduated it's last diploma RN in 2009.
Oh, so it's been implemented Canada wide? I did not know that. In Quebec they are talking about possibly implementing that in 2015...but like you said....Quebec is...well...Quebec.
Some advice, try to transition to RN BSN because many hospitals wont hire you without a bachelors degree. LPNs and ADN RNs mainly stay in nursing homes.
Well, to be honest, I have NO intention of ever going back to a hospital. I'm too old for the shiftwork. Right now I'm blissfully working in a Family Practice clinic and love it. I've also been DON at two senior residences and supervisor at a nursing agency. I guess it all depends on where you want to work.
I'm assuming you're from Pennsylvania.. There are a bunch of diploma schools around me and they are in the major hospital system so getting a job is a lot easier. If we were to go else where in the country with our diploma, I expect we might run into some issues...[/quote']
I am from PA, but I'm an ADN graduate, not Diploma; I start my RN-BSN in the fall. Im assuming the Diploma programs you're taking about are the UPMC hospital-based? You're right, they're everywhere! The diploma grads are definitely at a hiring advantage, especially if they work as a PCT in the UPMC system. However, I don't necessarily disagree with them having an advantage. They go to school within the system, they work for them, and they pay thousands of dollars for their education. Kudos to them for making themselves marketable!
I'm sorry to hear that! I think it's unfair to rule-out ADN nurses because it's a shorter program. In my state we get the same amount of clinical experience, if not more than a BSN program. [/quote']
Unless you have the uniqueness of being enrolled in an entry level BSN program as well as a ASN program; let's keep the generalizations of what a BSN covers in terms with hours out of it.
With that being said AS someone who has been enrolled in a ASN program, diploma program (as a practical nursing student) and a BSN program, I will share my experience of my nursing education.
In my area, the ASN programs are close to the equivalent of a BSN in terms of prerequisites and required course for the college, and then the nursing courses; the ONLY mere difference, at least in my experience, is that Research/Evidence-Based Practice and Community Health is split up in their own credit courses; the community college where I was a nursing student when I was 19-and by co-workers that recently completed and graduated from the program, is the combination of the courses and credit hours together due to the nature of being a community college, and it credit hours limited by their institution, versus the universities having credit hours and courses separate due to their credit hour system-that's IT...clinical hours are about the same; some BSN programs have additional practicums (more clinical hours) and preceptorships (more additional clinical hours) optionally.
In my ASN program, many were under the impression of the program being 2 years, and when they informed us at that time that they entire program was four years, it was discouraging; but for me being a person who doesn't not quit, I continued, only to not succeed (high turnover rate, and other external factors for another thread); then enrolled in a PN Diploma program (very rigorous in theory and practicum; best educational base I experienced) with success and eventually choosing a program to become an RN.
I choose a BSN program; this time, my rationale was I why get a two year degree, when I have enough credit hours (and an Associates) to go for a BSN? Besides, the program that was most flexible for me was the BSN program, so it does depend on the circumstances; however, because my area has many BSN programs (and ASN programs, and three diploma programs as well) as experienced BSNs, the consensus is BSN.
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VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN
22 Articles; 9,996 Posts
I'm another ADN who never had a burning desire to go back to school---no, make that NO desire. But I've done everything I ever wanted with my degree, including management and now LTC surveyor. I guess I'm one of the last of the dinosaurs who made it all the way through her career without feeling the lack of a BSN. :)