To Vaccinate Or Not To Vaccinate, That Is The Question

seraphimid · Oct 29, 2019

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:
You have jumped from citing 15 year old studies to bringing up a 30 year old terrible vaccine trial to claiming USAID is attempting regime change in Cuba. I guess if one can't intelligently support one argument, one just throws a whole bucketful against the wall and see what sticks.

You have disregarded every logical connection I’ve made and dismissed it as a “mistake” or selectively responded. A 30 year old study is still a valid study. Unfortunate that complexity is not your forte but that is the nature of reality.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Oct 30, 2019

9 hours ago, seraphimid said:
Unfortunate that complexity is not your forte but that is the nature of reality.

Ooh, fancy talk. But not very persuasive.

I support vaccinations according to the CDC/ACIP schedule for children and adults. I do not believe that vaccines cause autism or autoimmune diseases. I do believe that vaccines prevent disease and death.

Katie82, RN · Oct 30, 2019

I worked Public Health for 10 years, so you can believe I gave the "get your vaccinations" lecture thousands of times. Now, as a Case Manager, I fight the same battle. I have had many patients, after lengthy discussion, admit to me that they just don't like getting shots. My current focus is getting my adult patients to update the vaccines they had as children. Most people do not understand that the shot you receive at 18 months does not usually carry a lifetime immunity. The current Measles outbreak is a classic example. So many adults who contract Measles all have the same argument: "I got the vaccine as a child" . Guess what?????

seraphimid · Oct 30, 2019

24 minutes ago, nursej22 said:
Ooh, fancy talk. But not very persuasive.
I support vaccinations according to the CDC/ACIP schedule for children and adults. I do not believe that vaccines cause autism or autoimmune diseases. I do believe that vaccines prevent disease and death.

I can do this all day.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/800879

Results Four days following novel influenza A(H1N1) vaccination, the patient developed longitudinally extensive transverse myelitis. Extensive diagnostic evaluation effectively ruled out causes other than vaccination-associated transverse myelitis. Following treatment with corticosteroids and plasmapheresis, the patient made a significant recovery.

Conclusions Transverse myelitis may be associated with vaccination against novel influenza A(H1N1). Additionally, we believe this to be the first report of longitudinally extensive transverse myelitis associated with any vaccine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6010361/

In Pakistan and other developing countries, neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines are widely used because they are cost-effective. Neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines are associated with higher incidence of neurological complications like Guillain–Barre syndrome in comparison with the cell culture vaccines which have fewer side effects. It is therefore recommended that use of neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines should be condemned, and instead, the use of cell culture vaccines should be encouraged for the post-exposure treatment of rabies.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25427994/

This study suggests that in some cases CFS and FM can be temporally related to immunization, as part of ASIA syndrome. The appearance of adverse event during immunization, the presence of autoimmune susceptibility and higher titers of autoantibodies all can be suggested as risk factors. ASIA criteria were fulfilled in all patients eluding the plausible link between ASIA and CFS/FM.

HiddencatBSN, BSN · Oct 30, 2019

On 10/29/2019 at 10:15 PM, seraphimid said:
I can do this all day.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/800879
Results Four days following novel influenza A(H1N1) vaccination, the patient developed longitudinally extensive transverse myelitis. Extensive diagnostic evaluation effectively ruled out causes other than vaccination-associated transverse myelitis. Following treatment with corticosteroids and plasmapheresis, the patient made a significant recovery.
Conclusions Transverse myelitis may be associated with vaccination against novel influenza A(H1N1). Additionally, we believe this to be the first report of longitudinally extensive transverse myelitis associated with any vaccine.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6010361/
In Pakistan and other developing countries, neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines are widely used because they are cost-effective. Neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines are associated with higher incidence of neurological complications like Guillain–Barre syndrome in comparison with the cell culture vaccines which have fewer side effects. It is therefore recommended that use of neural tissue sheep brain anti-rabies vaccines should be condemned, and instead, the use of cell culture vaccines should be encouraged for the post-exposure treatment of rabies.

A single case study against how many millions of vaccinations compared to how many people died that year from H1N1.....and the exceedingly rare reaction is the bigger risk to you?

seraphimid · Oct 30, 2019

3 minutes ago, HiddencatBSN said:
A single case study against how many millions of vaccinations compared to how many people died that year from H1N1.....and the exceedingly rare reaction is the bigger risk to you?

The biggest risk is the explicit and scientifically studied and proven FACT that autoimmune diseases and vaccines have a causal relationship. The second biggest risk is that infants have immature immune systems. To repeat for the third or fourth time: fewer memory T cells in a baby = less antigen specifity in the immune system processes = more epitope cross reactivity = the T cells and macrophages attacking neuron epitopes = autoimmune disaster in an infant.

seraphimid · Oct 30, 2019

14 minutes ago, Katie82 said:
I worked Public Health for 10 years, so you can believe I gave the "get your vaccinations" lecture thousands of times. Now, as a Case Manager, I fight the same battle. I have had many patients, after lengthy discussion, admit to me that they just don't like getting shots. My current focus is getting my adult patients to update the vaccines they had as children. Most people do not understand that the shot you receive at 18 months does not usually carry a lifetime immunity. The current Measles outbreak is a classic example. So many adults who contract Measles all have the same argument: "I got the vaccine as a child" . Guess what?????

I had the MMR vaccine twice in a month and still am not immune to measles. Your anecdotal work experience is completely unscientific. Plenty of people are not immune to measles even after getting the complete scheduled series of vaccinations.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Oct 30, 2019

12 minutes ago, seraphimid said:
I had the MMR vaccine twice in a month and still am not immune to measles. Your anecdotal work experience is completely unscientific. Plenty of people are not immune to measles even after getting the complete scheduled series of vaccinations.

That's why it is reported to be 98% effective in producing immunity. Few things in health care are 100%. So if 300,000,000 million people were immunized for measles, you would expect 60,000 people to not be immune. So yes, we agree, plenty of people are not immune.

That's kinda weird that you were given MMR twice in a month. It has been recommended to wait 1 month between doses.

Vaccines have varying durations of effectiveness. The full series of Hep B, if one sero-converts, is thought to protect from Hepatitis B and the cancer it can cause for life.

Unfortunately, acellular pertussis, is only effective for a few years.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Oct 30, 2019

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/111/3/653.short

"Consistent with critical differences between natural infection and immunization, well-controlled epidemiologic studies do not support the hypothesis that vaccines cause autoimmunity."

seraphimid · Oct 30, 2019

11 hours ago, nursej22 said:
https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/111/3/653.short
"Consistent with critical differences between natural infection and immunization, well-controlled epidemiologic studies do not support the hypothesis that vaccines cause autoimmunity."

None of the well controlled studies are listed.

"Vaccines prevent disease and death".

So does iodine. But it depends on the medium and chemical structure of how it is administered as medicine, the dosage, the age of the receiver etc. If you're not careful about those factors, iodine can cripple or kill you, ie CAUSE disease and death.

The high titer measles EZ vaccine case demonstrates how different versions of a vaccine may cause different responses in male and female populations.

seraphimid · Oct 30, 2019

12 hours ago, nursej22 said:
That's why it is reported to be 98% effective in producing immunity. Few things in health care are 100%. So if 300,000,000 million people were immunized for measles, you would expect 60,000 people to not be immune. So yes, we agree, plenty of people are not immune.
That's kinda weird that you were given MMR twice in a month. It has been recommended to wait 1 month between doses.
Vaccines have varying durations of effectiveness. The full series of Hep B, if one sero-converts, is thought to protect from Hepatitis B and the cancer it can cause for life.
Unfortunately, acellular pertussis, is only effective for a few years.

My point remains that a measles outbreak could be spread by a non immune previously fully vaccinated individual such as myself.

nursej22, MSN, RN · Oct 30, 2019

10 minutes ago, seraphimid said:
My point remains that a measles outbreak could be spread by a non immune previously fully vaccinated individual such as myself.

You are correct. A person who has become infected with measles is contagious for as many as 4 days before the onset of rash. That is why public health strives to identify measles cases early so that susceptible persons can be protected. And also why they encourage all who can be, get immunized, thus allowing herd immunity to protect newborns, immunocompromised, and those rare people who do not develop immunity.