To Unionize or Not To Unionize: Questions that every nurse should ask themselves

JessicRN · Jan 18, 2008

If is because of the MNA (MA UNion)

we are making $50/hr base pay with a $7.00 shift diff.

We have a pension instead of paying social security after 30 years and working to decrease it to 20 years like law enforcement

We have full health coverage after 10 years of employement

We are working under the same safe staffing as California

We are working 36 hours full time and 12 hour shifts

We are not being forced to use our own hospitals MD's or pay a very high price for our insurance

Nurses with 15 years+ only have to work every third W/e and those with 20+ do not have to work w/e at all

We are not employees at will in otherwords management cannot fire us on a whim

I have been a nurse for 30 years and I have worked in hospitals that were and were not unionized and believe me I vote for the union. It is true though that the union does have negatives in that it favors longevity instead of skill and qualification and education and seniority. But the pros have it

jeolsz · Jan 18, 2008

A long time ago I worked in a hospital that brought in a union in hopes of better wages and benefits for the RN's that were working there. What I found was people I had been working with for years, taking sides against each other, which left a bad taste in my mouth. I always felt that as a professional, I had knowledge and skills that I could offer at many health care facilities and I didn't need someone else looking after my best interests. I felt the Union got in the way of many opportunities because of seniority ( a nurse would get the job not based on the quality of his/her work, but on the length of time employed). I felt a strain between employee and management and I also didn't want to be told to go out and strike, when I wasn't convinced of what the union was fighting for. I always felt that if I didn't like where I was working, I could go elsewhere and I still feel the same today. If I didn't have anything to offer and had no job skills or education, unions might help, but with being an educated profesional, I don't feel I need that kind of help.

lindarn · Jan 19, 2008

...and hope for the good graces of a benevolent leader. Without unions, working people in this country wouldn't have a little something called "the weekend" (which has been eroded somewhat!). Unions are the reason we had a middle class, which is rapidly eroding. Without unions, no healthcare and no pensions.
Absent the collective power of the worker, you are entirely at the mercy of management.
Pensions, healthcare, and basic perks --brought to you care of the blood, sweat and tears of union members before you--- are under attack by multinationalist corporations that could care less about you. They will do everything within their power to deprive you of a living wage, whittle your benefits to nothing, and then, hand your job to foreign workers (god bless them) who will gladly do it cheaper.
I believe in the power of unions. It is the only power that you have, really. Declare yourself "anti-union" for some vague, politically correct reason, and watch how fast you put every American on this forum out of a job.

The demise of unions in this country are the reason that pensions, benefits, job protection, have gone the way of the wind. With no workplace protecion the middle class worker is thrown to the wolves known as multi national corporations, globalization, illegal immigrants, etc. You get the picture.

Anti union workers who believe what their employers tell them about how "bad unions are", have their head in the sand.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jan 19, 2008

i've worked in both union and non-union hospitals, and have found that for the most part, nurses get a better deal in the union hospitals. (or in a hospital that is struggling to fight off a union -- however the "good deal" tends to evaporate as soon as management feels comfortable that the threat of a union is a thing of the past.

i worked for 3 years in a great place -- a union hospital. nurses got great pensions and could retire after 20 years. scheduling was fair, there were no "sweetheart deals" (unlike the non-union i'd worked at previously), mandatory overtime or deliberate short-staffing. the unit manager was a close friend of the union steward. it was a great place to work. i moved away (my husband was in the military) but kept in touch with some of my former co-workers. a few years after i left, the hospital successfully "busted" the union. within a year, the great pensions were a thing of the past and a friend who was within two years of retirement suddenly had the rug pulled out from under her.

given a choice, i'll take the union every time. unions aren't perfect, but they beat the alternative!

jeolsz · Jan 19, 2008

Wow, Lindarn, I really don't think I have my head in the sand.. I have worked at many hospitals both union and non union and personally I like to fight my own battles. I've always felt and still do, that raises and promotions should go to the people who deserve them, based on merit and not on seniority. Why bother to work hard or think "out of the box", when this goes largely unnoticed at a unionized hospital. I've since left the hospital and persued work in the corporate world ( health insurance) .. You don't find too many unions out there and I've almost doubled my salary in less than 10 years and have a great pension. Go figure.

allnurses Guide · Jan 19, 2008

Wow, Lindarn, I really don't think I have my head in the sand.. I have worked at many hospitals both union and non union and personally I like to fight my own battles. I've always felt and still do, that raises and promotions should go to the people who deserve them, based on merit and not on seniority. Why bother to work hard or think "out of the box", when this goes largely unnoticed at a unionized hospital. I've since left the hospital and persued work in the corporate world ( health insurance) .. You don't find too many unions out there and I've almost doubled my salary in less than 10 years and have a great pension. Go figure.

I agree with you. And want to follow in your footsteps. :w00t:

steph

lindarn · Jan 19, 2008

Wow, Lindarn, I really don't think I have my head in the sand.. I have worked at many hospitals both union and non union and personally I like to fight my own battles. I've always felt and still do, that raises and promotions should go to the people who deserve them, based on merit and not on seniority. Why bother to work hard or think "out of the box", when this goes largely unnoticed at a unionized hospital. I've since left the hospital and persued work in the corporate world ( health insurance) .. You don't find too many unions out there and I've almost doubled my salary in less than 10 years and have a great pension. Go figure.

But too often in non union hospitals, the promotions, and raises go to the managers, and administrations "pets", (aka known as "brown nosers"). There is no recognition or reward for employees who worked hard, came in when the unit was short, pitched in to help the bosses pet when they couldn't handle their assignments, were in "over there heads" in their assignments (again), and who were totally unqualified to be in the positions that they were in. But, they were the bosses pets and could no wrong. They always managed to get the big raise, recognition, etc, that was completely unearned.

At least in a union environment, EVERYONE gets a raise, and no one is left out, or given raises, and merit equally, not because of the favoritism from the boss.

I am glad that you work in the corporate world and are making double your salary. You won't find too many unions in the corporate world, but many company employees are wishing that they were unionized. Especially when their jobs are going over seas to foreign workers or illegal immigrants who make a fraction of what the American workers are making doing the same job.

You are a nurse, and have education and skills that are not easlily replaced by a cheap foreign worker in a corporate environment. Tell that to the MBA who just got laid off when his job when to India, and he had to train his replacement or he wouldn't have recieved the severance pay that he hopes will keep his family afloat until his wife gives birth to their second baby.

I am glad that you like to fight your own battles. I don't think that you would have won against the powerful health care corporations when they took over you hospital and fired everyone who had more than five years seniority at the facility.

As I have said in many other threads concerning anti union members, you have delusions of grandeur if you think you can fight and win against a major corporation. There is power in numbers. It has been proven time and time again.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jan 20, 2008

As for me I am a union man....

Mourn the dead and fight like H*** for the living-Mother Jones.....

New Grads in mental health are starting at 31/hr. in MN. States with a strong labor tradition tend to have better health care systems. A friend of mine was thinking about FLA until he learned about the 18/hr starting with no pension vs a job in MN.

elliejayRN · Jan 20, 2008

I'm a new nurse and I've only worked long term in a hospital for nearly 10 years in which they were constantly fighting off the union. Great healthcare system, nurses are really spoiled, then I applied at a union hospital and what they were selling didn't justify those union fees. I prefer the hospital with the threat unionization always on the horizon.

jeolsz · Jan 20, 2008

I don't know, life is like that.. You win some and you lose some.. I try to teach my kids there are no victims just poor choses. I do realize there are some of you out there that see life as being unfair at times and see yourselves as victims of an unfair world and for you, there are unions. But I much prefer to save myself the monthly union dues and chose a different route when life doesn't go my way. There have been many times I've lost a battle and got up and moved on, and that's OK, because it's part of life and who I am right now. I don't believe in having someone oversee and make everything alright, because what's right for the group, may not be right for me.

HM2VikingRN, RN · Jan 21, 2008

in general improvong the lot of the group improves your lot as an individual (There is roughly a 20% wage premium for unionized workers versus non-unionized workers.)

As Jim Hightower puts it in quting his father "everybody does better when everybody does better"

Union dues are a very cheap insurance plan against the vagaries of incompetent mangement.....

jeolsz · Jan 21, 2008

in general improvong the lot of the group improves your lot as an individual (There is roughly a 20% wage premium for unionized workers versus non-unionized workers.)
As Jim Hightower puts it in quting his father "everybody does better when everybody does better"
Union dues are a very cheap insurance plan against the vagaries of incompetent mangement.....

Here you assume all management is imcompetent and we all want the same thing when it comes to the work environment and our individual needs.

Many years ago, I was working as a per diem for a small local hospital which decided it needed a union. As momentum grew I really questioned what I would gain from having a union represent me. At the time I really didn't feel the end justified the means. They were representing the needs of the full time worker and I was per diem. So I decided this was not in my best interest and would not support it. Well, fellow nurses who I had known for years suddenly aquired a mob mentality and turned on me, writing scab next to my name and reporting any little infraction to my superiors. It was a low point in my career as an RN and left a really bad taste in my mouth for unions in general. Eventually things got better and people started to respect my decision, even as the union took hold.

Nothing you can say will change my opinion of unions in professional nursing as I feel they do not have a place in an educated group of people. I think it tends to squash individualism, competition and inovation. as these have no place in a socialist society.

" Living is hard, dying is easy" Jack Lalane