Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
Ok, I am a nursing student in an RN program and we are currently on rounds at a local hospital. I am also the daughter of a physician and RN, who was taught from a very young age to speak up about things, in a professional manner.
Scenario in point, I was on rounds at the hospital and we were at the nurses station setting up meds and a conversation is starting between 2 doctors who involve us in the conversation. My senior nurse instructor is standing with us doing the meds and hears the whole thing transpire.
Doc 1 says, "Nurses around here have it easy." (my ears burning, mouth is shut)
Doc 2 says, "Yeah, I don't know why they don't prioritize better. If they did they would not have so many complaints about so many things and tasks would be completed." (mouth still shut, face red, glaring at my instructor who is giving me the "PLEASE don't say anything or I will kill you look.")
Doc 1 says, "I should come down here and do my own rounds." (I laughed out loud thus involving myself into a now volatile situation)
Doc 2 turns and says, "Young lady are you alright" (now I could take the moral low road and just lie and say I was talking to my friend) Not me, LOL.
Nursing student (me) says, "I heard your conversation and was little surprised is all." (Nursing instructor is now bright red and praying I am not going to say what she already knows I am)
Doc 1 says, "Oh, what about our private conversation was surprising"
Nursing student says, "My dad went to med school and is a physician and he didn't tell me they had nurse training while they were there" (Nursing instructor slaps her forehead, blinks 400 times, and runs off to find a body bag for me)
Doc 2 chokes then says, "Well I went to medical school and I can surely do any nurses job. Besides you're a student you can't possible know things as of yet.
Doc 1 is standing with his mouth gaping open, speechless.
Nursing student says, "I am sure these nurses would appreciate some assistance. BTW I have to give meds out, would you like to help"
Thus resulting in both of them shaking their heads and walking away.
Now, I realize this conversation could have, and probably should have went a different direction, but it gives me sunburn on my ass when I hear doctors say things like that. Of all places, in FRONT OF the nurses station. That is adding insult to injury. Most of those nurses standing around weren't going to say anything, for obvious reasons, but the idea that they have to put up with that nonsense is enraging to me. I am a foolish nursing student, but I don't believe what those docs did was right, professional, or even tolerable. The fact they BELIEVE the things they were saying was a laugh.
Anyways, do you all have to listen to Docs speak that way on a regular basis?
Excellent. I personally would have said and Doctor what would you specifically have me do to prioitize better for this floor and your patients. I did that in a meeting once and we almost had to give mouth to mouth. (he was cute too!)
I'm sorry I disagree. They were being a couple of jerks yes; but that doesn't mean she had to jump in with both feet......... and I think she realizes that. I appreciate her advocacy on behalf of nurses but that wasn't the way to do it. Again, I'm the first person to say that we don't have to take abuse or belittlement. I just do not think the way the student responded in this case was the right way to do it.
What would you have done? Nothing, but steam away the rest of the shift, o be a matyr to their earshot degrading conversation about nurses whom you are a sister nurse.......
This is a good example of the old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right."
While the physicians were wrong in what they said and where they said it -- you're response was not professional and did little, if anything, to help the situation.
Knowing when and how to speak up is just as important as having the "gumption" to do so. Reacting to an "overheard" conversation is rarely appropriate in a hospital setting and "smart alec" comments are unprofessional with people who are not your friends.
If you are going to become the leader and nursing champion that you appear to want to be, you will need to learn how to maximize your political effectiveness. That will probably mean that you will have to learn to more professional ways of confronting physicians when appropriate.
We need nurses (like you) to continue the struggles of our profession for the respect we deserve. But acting like a smart alec with physicians with whom you have no previous friendly relationship isn't going to help.
Next time a doc acts that way to you or in front of you or about your prioritizing, would you please tell them what you just posted? We'll all be on the same godly page then.
Well here's the thing......they were having a conversation between the two of them. (Since they chose to have it in front of the nurses' station within your earshot I would dispute how private they wanted it to be), but the conversation was their conversation and they were expressing their opinions, however ignorant and ill-informed they might have been. So you really had no right to do what you did. If they had addressed you or the nurses, that would have been a different matter.
I appreciate your feelings. I am the first person to say that you should not take abuse or disrespect of any kind when it is directed at you.
And to answer your question, no I don't have to listen to docs speak that way. I realize that they don't have a clue about my job but at least they are polite enough to keep it to themselves.
These docs didn't keep anything derogatory to themselves, in fact it was in ear shot. To me that is not the doc keeping his opinion to himself.
This is a good example of the old adage "Two wrongs don't make a right."
While the physicians were wrong in what they said and where they said it -- you're response was not professional and did little, if anything, to help the situation.
Knowing when and how to speak up is just as important as having the "gumption" to do so. Reacting to an "overheard" conversation is rarely appropriate in a hospital setting and "smart alec" comments are unprofessional with people who are not your friends.
If you are going to become the leader and nursing champion that you appear to want to be, you will need to learn how to maximize your political effectiveness. That will probably mean that you will have to learn to more professional ways of confronting physicians when appropriate.
We need nurses (like you) to continue the struggles of our profession for the respect we deserve. But acting like a smart alec with physicians with whom you have no previous friendly relationship isn't going to help.
Holy smokes, that was not just a hilarious event but I LOVE the way you wrote it!!! I was the one with the "Big mouth" in my LPN program, so I can totally relate.
You are so blessed to be in a nursing program where the instructors are supportive; if I had spoken up to a doc in my program, I would have most likely been written up! :uhoh21:
were there any consequences for your actions from your clinical instructor?
it's a fine line...although cathartic, responding to idiocy is as productive as slamming on your gas pedal in a mud hole
had you not spoke your mind, you probably would have stewed over it the whole day, come on this MB and complained (assuming the martyr role) and others would say, well it's just something we have to deal with and it's frustrating, and it's not right...but yet we tolerate it on a daily basis
what you said wasn't particularly professional, but neither was the doc, and if the doc had not opened his inappropriate trap, this thread would not be here; however I don't believe your comment was terribly inappropriate either...at least you didn't call him any names or ask him if his parents had any children who sruvived
2 wrongs don't make a right, but nurses have been allowing doctors to get away with this type of verbal abuse for decades and I can't really see where beight the docile sub has aided the profession
to all others who didn't like the OP's comments...what, if anything would you have said?
sometimes when someone/anyone makes a comment, that can't even dignify a response, i have to laugh.
kind of a, "are-you-for-real" laugh, as i shake my head and continue doing my work.
this response either elicits a "what's so funny", to which i ignore, with a somewhat snide smirk on my face:
or, more direct/honest, a quick, contemptuous sneer.
other times, i have politely pointed out that since their conversation was loud enough for everyone to hear, would they please take it elsewhere, as i gesture them along.
very matter of fact, no nonsense.
i don't have time or the inclination, to deal w/ignorance.
Specializes in Peds, OB-GYN, CCU, ER, Corrections.
I would like to clarify here that I did NOT say that the OP couldn't defend our profession because she was not yet licensed. What I did say is that as a student, a non-employee, and most definitely not a participant in the conversation is that she should not have smarted off to the doctors. Standing up for yourself and your profession one thing, being a smarta$$ quite another.
I say to this student: Good girl! You have 2 big brass cajones, my friend, and I salute you. Yep, you probably in your career will be taken to task for "insubordination" but I say, wear it as a badge of pride. For way too long, the nursing culture has been to just suck it up and take the rude comments, the yelling, and the humiliation. Telling this girl she "needs to pick her battles" and "two wrongs don't make a right" is just code for "shut up and deal with it". I'm telling you, some of the meanest, nastiest surgeons I have worked with will back down once you stick up for yourself. Have I been reported? Once, and I was backed up by my nurse manager. Even if i HAD gotten in trouble, I could have still looked at myself in the mirror each morning with pride, knowing that I am not the whipping girl of anyone, doctor or no. These doctors do not sign my paycheck and I refuse to take their crap because their wife is mad at them, their mistress is getting on their nerves, their kids are bratty and ugly etc etc etc. Ok, off of my soapbox-I think I need to start drinking decaf!!
I think you did fine. You'll probably get written up for something you say once you get your license, but what the hell? You were reasonable, but funny, and they got the message. I see no reason to silently stand by while they bash someone without cause. We need more assertive nurses.
sharona97, BSN, RN
1,300 Posts
Excellent. I personally would have said and Doctor what would you specifically have me do to prioitize better for this floor and your patients. I did that in a meeting once and we almost had to give mouth to mouth. (he was cute too!)