In my estimation there are many differences. When I used to ask this question, some would say "nothing really, just management stuff". Wow was I in for a learning curve in the BSN program.
I don't understand why there aren't real, substantive answers as to why it seems that more hospitals and nursing in general are moving to all BSN status as a minimum.
First, allow me to just say that there are some really GREAT ASNs out there. Their experience, caring and thoughtful nursing skill sets are invaluable. I know of quite a few myself whom I would have care for me or any of my loved ones, due to the fact I know they care and are extremely good at what they do. Secondly, the field of nursing is a great, well respected career path. Any degree in Nursing is indeed a good choice, but why not make a great choice? There are many career paths within the field of nursing and different areas of nursing one can follow or get into. The major two types are the ASN and the BSN. How does it differ from a nurse who has an associate degree in nursing? Are there any differences other than being in school a little longer? Is the pay different? Is it only for a "managers job?".
The associate degree nurse is commonly called the "associate of science in nursing" or ASN degree nurse. An associate degree nurse has commonly completed approximately two years of nursing school training. However before entering any nursing program the student must have completed the prerequisites in order to be accepted into that program. Many times this entails having completed one to two years of education in order to meet the requirements for nursing school. Many students finish much more quickly but not without, arguably, hard work and a lot of time and energy. The latter being true for nursing education in general. ASN nurses take courses in, most obviously, nursing. However, the curriculum includes many other facets of learning. ASNs take courses in psychology, nutrition, microbiology, chemistry, physiology as well as social and behavioral sciences. One thing all nursing schools and curriculums have in common are hours of supervised clinical experience. While the course is technically only two years long, many students, young and old alike say it's one of the toughest programs they have ever encountered.
The baccalaureate in nursing program adds to the educational development of the registered nurse by including several other aspects of nursing. Baccalaureate or commonly called "bachelor" nursing programs contain all of the course work taught in ASN and diploma programs plus a more in-depth treatment of the physical and social sciences, research in the field of nursing, public and community health, nursing management and supervising, as well as the humanities. The additional coursework can continue to enhance the nursing student's professional development It also prepares the new nurse for a broader scope of practice, and provides the nursing student, whether already an ASN or not with a better understanding of the economic, political, cultural, and social issues that affect a patient and influence health care delivery. Throughout the last decade, policymakers and nursing practice leaders have recognized that education makes a difference. One of the major differences is in the area of "people". That is to say, BSNs' learn more on how to deal with people and the dynamics of the people in the workplace as well as effective management and productivity of those people. Also, registered nurses with a BSN possess a substantial chance for advancing their careers. As an example, a bachelor's in nursing degree is needed for acceptance into a master's nursing program, which could result in a career in healthcare administration, health services, or on to specialty nursing roles like nurse anesthetist, nurse practitioner or clinical nurse leader. A BSN is also favored and frequently necessitated for military and public health nursing and other more specialized jobs.
Now, with that said. Education is a great way to become enlightened on even more nursing information and for creation of change in the profession. All one has to do is look up Linda Aiken, RN and the information from her years of research on nursing will enlighten and brighten ones' thoughts on this matter -of magnet hospitals and/or facilities. Dr. Aiken and colleagues found (in over a decade of research) that hospitals that employed a higher percentile of BSNs had lower surgical patient mortality rates than hospitals that staffed with fewer BSNs (Hanink, 2014). The study was done in 2003 and other studies are continuing even now. All point to a need in a BSN. The study in 2003 was done on 168 hospitals. In addition, hospitals with RNs holding a bachelor's degree or higher ranged from 0% to 77% across the hospitals. a 10% increase in the proportion of nurses holding a bachelor's degree was associated with a 5% decrease in both the likelihood of patients dying within 30 days of admission and the odds of failure to rescue (JAMA, 2003). I would strongly recommend that any and all nurses read Dr. Aikens' research paper on this. It can be found in the link below.
Everywhere nurses look, other professions are taking on additional responsibilities, given more credibility and even more respect (PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, RTs etc) while nurses are seen as the pill pushers, IV starters etc. We need to educate ourselves and be proactive in all areas of patient care. That would include management, and lobbying congress for better nurse ratios as well.
On a personal note, if you are someone in nursing school or are considering nursing. Consider going for the BSN. The ASN is good if you are considering working and THEN going for your BSN, however as most nurses will tell you. It's hard to stop then start again, and sometimes expensive. Just keep going. Don't stop.
I like to write as you can tell. So what do you think?
Respectfully, I have yet to see a Two year associate degree nursing program containing all of the items required for graduation for someone that has no previous college experience. In the vast majority of cases, the credit hours required are more consistent with three years of college courses not two.
Second, many associate programs require those very same courses that are claimed to be the difference between a BSN and an ADN/ASN. I studied research. The case studies that I did as an ASN were longer and required to be more in depth than what I am required in my RN to BSN program at a well respected university. They were also graded more strictly.
I am almost finished with the program, and have yet to have found it overly useful nor new information. Things that are different, is use of APA format which was not used in the 80's,. My class in computer use was helpful, as my last papers had been done on a word processor, where there was no spell or grammar check. And an Informatics class - a field which did not exist when I went to school.
Otherwise, my BSN is being done merely to allow me to get "credit" for the work/teaching I do every day of my life, by allowing me to move up in the clinical ladder. Otherwise, I feel that the majority of the course work has been redundant and a waste of time and money.
Your ADN program had a classes dedicated to research on evidence based practice? classes dedicated to leadership? etc..
i have looked at many ADN curriculum to check, and none had those classes mentioned.
My ADN program included a lot of those topics in the basic nursing classes. (And the only difference in pre-reqs was statistics and chemistry.) We sat for the same NCLEX- so yeah, in my opinion those two extra years are not necessary to making a qualified, competent, great nurse.
Your ADN program had a classes dedicated to evidence based research? classes dedicated to leadership? etc..
i have looked at many ADN curriculum to check, and none had those classes mentioned.
Mine most certainly did. As there were few BSN programs in my area ( and one that was much more expensive and not accredited by NLN), most nurses were ADN/ASNs at the time, so lack of leadership training would have been a serious issue. Many things though, were incorporated into the nursing courses.
The papers for my recent research course in the RN to BSN were minor, compared to case studies in my associates program. Though working in a teaching hospital that does a great deal of research probably helps.
Mine most certainly did. As there were few BSN programs in my area ( and one that was much more expensive and not accredited by NLN), most nurses were ADN/ASNs at the time, so lack of leadership training would have been a serious issue. Many things though, were incorporated into the nursing courses.
The papers for my recent research course in the RN to BSN were minor, compared to case studies in my associates program. Though working in a teaching hospital that does a great deal of research probably helps.
Which ADN program is that (that included these classes, courses dedicated to leadership and courses dedicated to evidence based practice research) ? because i haven't seen one yet that does.
Respectfully, BSN degree is a 4 year program, where an ADN is two year program, so i disagree that those two years of additional classes are not helpful.
Classes such as research evidence based practice, management, leadership, and obviously more in depth core nursing courses, etc.. should be included in any nursing curriculum because it involves the daily job role of a nurse, and that is why there is a trend to have a BSN as the minimum requirement for the entry level in nursing.
An ADN is not a two year program. There is at least a year of pre-req courses to complete (a&p, micro, english 1&2, psych, socio,human growth, stats, pharm, etc) followed by 2 years of just nursing courses. Most ADN programs take at least 3 years to complete and require the same number of clinical hours as BSN programs.
Which ADN program is that (that included these classes, courses dedicated to leadership and courses dedicated to evidence based practice research) ? because i haven't seen one yet that does.
Mine was incorporated in the to the Nursing classes, with 5 overall Nursing clinical and educational terms, covering several different topics each term. Research and leadership were covered during those terms I do not ID myself nor would it be beneficial or adequate proof, for you to try a research a nursing curriculum titled Nursing 4 or 5 in a 20-25 year old record, of a school that no longer even has the same name.
However, a brief review of evidence based literature from the Welch library, pulls up several research articles on undergraduate research courses, including research components in Associate Degree programs.The Journal of Nursing Education, November of 2005, has an excellent article about how an AD program that incorporated research curriculum into their AD program, and also offered an additional elective course whereupon students could work on a more indepth project.
There is another article about incorporating research into an associate degree program at Mississippi University for Woman, and published in Teaching and Learning in Nursing, October 2011.
You can always review CINAHL or Pubmed from your local medical school to find others.
As the NLN in 1990, and the ANA (1991) has made it clear that AD nurses must be able to participate in data collection, identification and assessment of problems and issues, and effectiveness of solutions, there would have to be education to that effect, just as most of us were required capstone or practicums, much of which required education and demonstration of leadership. Just because it is listed as Nursing 4 or Nursing 5, does not negate what many of the classes contained, which is mirrored by much of the leadership and research courses that I having to do currently in my RN to BSN.
Please excuse my lack of APA references but not in the mood to go that indepth at this time.
As nurses, regardless of degree or role, do we practice based on the objective evidence or on subjective evidence?
As nurses I think we do both. We take the subjective information the patient gives us, pain for example, and treat it accordingly in a manner that is safe based on our objective findings (BP, resp, pulse WNL) and provider orders.
As nurses I think we do both. We take the subjective information the patient gives us, pain for example, and treat it accordingly in a manner that is safe based on our objective findings (BP, resp, pulse WNL) and provider orders.
Patient has been sleeping most of the day but tells you they are in pain and need more dilaudid with a RR of 6.
When the subjective and objective conflict on which side do your err?
Patient has been sleeping most of the day but tells you they are in pain and need more dilaudid with a RR of 6.
When the subjective and objective conflict on which side do your err?
Patient safety first. No more dilaudid. Better have Narcan on hand instead. When respers. are better, and LOC more alert based on the objective findings, then we can think about giving more pain meds based on the patient's subjective pain rating.
One is not more important than the other I do not think (as far as subjective/objective data), but are just merely different. I don't NOT believe a patient is having pain with the objective data shown, but you can't let them die...
It could translate to this topic, as the subjective data of people saying it doesn't matter whether you get an ASN or BSN and then there is the objective data where studies have shown that more BSN prepared nurses result in better outcomes. Both may be true, but neither are mandatory.
The above example, IS mandatory as you would be charged with negligence/malpractice if you gave more dilaudid with the objective findings. That's why hospitals are able to decide whether they want ASN and BSN or JUST BSN. It seems hospitals (perhaps insurance companies as well) like to side with the objective data, where data is studied, because if there is legitimate data that would improve health, why wouldn't you choose it? Why choose to employ ASN, where the argument is that people SAY that the ASN is just as good when you can have "better" (whether believed or not, but backed up by research), with the BSN?
Once it has been researched/proved that ASN are just as safe, and BSN's do not lead to better outcomes, then we can think about what people think first hand of ASN programs and their ability to produce the same BSN outcomes.
Both types of data are relevant and neither are to be false, but fact and belief in society, most people tend to side with fact first rather than belief because everyone has their own belief whereas with enough research, there could be an actual fact, and people want the true/real answers as opposed to just what people think/believe.
Nurse-Prestige
37 Posts
Your ADN program had a classes dedicated to research on evidence based practice? classes dedicated to leadership? etc..
i have looked at many ADN curriculum to check, and none had those classes mentioned.