Termination From Employer For Refusing EUV

[RaineyRN7]

I am an Oncology nurse working for a hospital for more than 13 years. I live in California and there is now a mandate in place that is requiring me to be vaccinated before Sept. 30th or I will be terminated from my job. Not only do I not feel comfortable to receive a EUV that no long term studies have been documented because it is too new and not FDA approved but I have also witnessed friends as well as patients having severe side effects after receiving vaccination.

I am unclear how an employer has the LEGAL RIGHT to ask me personal questions about my religious beliefs or medical information (vaccination status), where are my HIPAA Rights. Employer vaccine mandates are subject to religious accommodation under the Title VII of the Civil rights act. For personal reasons I will be submitting for religious exemption to hopefully prevent me from losing my job. 

I'm not sure what the outcome will be but I am planning to seek employment elsewhere in case I do lose my job and likely it won't be in healthcare. I don't know if this will be the end of my nursing career and if it is I feel extremely sad about that. 

What happened to the phrase " my body my choice " ? 

I will not be forced to do anything to my body that I do not choose.

 Through scripture we know that God values our bodies. Our bodies are said to be a temple of the Holy Spirit, and we are called to take care of and honor God's temple. God's words lead use to use our bodies and the gifts He has given us to achieve the will of God.

[macawake, MSN]

3 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

What’s reckless? She has a choice to decide if she is at risk for developing serious disease or death. 

Does this mean that you don’t think that herd immunity is something we should even be bothering with when it comes to infectious diseases? Basically, everyone just looks out for number one? 

[toomuchbaloney]

10 minutes ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

What’s reckless? She has a choice to decide if she is at risk for developing serious disease or death. 

You don't understand the principles of disease management during a pandemic and how vaccinating compliance interplays with public health goals? 

Wow.

Where did you study nursing?

[Alex Kowalcyk]

Hi Lorraine, what they are mandating you to do may not be in violation of HIPAA law, but it most certainly is in abject violation of The Nuremberg Code (1947). Don't mind those replies you got from naive nurses on this board. Being on the wrong side of history while it repeats itself is like failing an open-book test. Keep strong and stand in your truth.

"1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge or comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment."

If I could underline above I would underline the words 'fraud,' 'deceit,' and 'coercion.' Soon, the way it is going, we may have to consider that word, 'force.'

 

Alex Kowalcyk, CCRN

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Vaccine mandates from employers have been challenged in the courts with very little success. 

The US Supreme Court declined to get involved with a challenge to vaccine mandates just the other day. I wouldn't count on the Nuremburg Code providing relief.

The medical and religious exemptions have provided the OP with a huge loophole that she has already stated she plans to exploit. There is no problem here.

[toomuchbaloney]

8 minutes ago, Alex Kowalcyk said:

Hi Lorraine, what they are mandating you to do may not be in violation of HIPAA law, but it most certainly is in abject violation of The Nuremberg Code (1947). Don't mind those replies you got from naive nurses on this board. Being on the wrong side of history while it repeats itself is like failing an open-book test. Keep strong and stand in your truth.

"1. The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, overreaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge or comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment."

If I could underline above I would underline the words 'fraud,' 'deceit,' and 'coercion.' Soon, the way it is going, we may have to consider that word, 'force.'

 

Alex Kowalcyk, CCRN

You seem confused. 

[JKL33]

3 hours ago, Lorraine Shea said:

I am an Oncology nurse working for a hospital for more than 13 years. I live in California and there is now a mandate in place that is requiring me to be vaccinated before Sept. 30th or I will be terminated from my job. Not only do I not feel comfortable to receive a EUV that no long term studies have been documented because it is too new and not FDA approved but I have also witnessed friends as well as patients having severe side effects after receiving vaccination.

Straight-forward question:  Is there something in particular that you feel is going to happen if you were to just choose to receive the vaccine?

I have spoken with some people in my community who verbalize concerns similar to yours and they tend to verbalize a total wild-card scenario where almost anything is likely, and equally likely. I just want you to know, sincerely--that is simply not the case. The exceedingly-most-likely thing that would happen if you were to choose to get the vaccine is that you would develop antibodies that help protect yourself from becoming seriously ill with covid-19 or dying from covid-19.

Can you elaborate?

[macawake, MSN]

On 8/13/2021 at 4:27 PM, Alex Kowalcyk said:

Hi Lorraine, what they are mandating you to do may not be in violation of HIPAA law, but it most certainly is in abject violation of The Nuremberg Code (1947). Don't mind those replies you got from naive nurses on this board. Being on the wrong side of history while it repeats itself is like failing an open-book test. Keep strong and stand in your truth.

Alex Kowalcyk, CCRN

”Being on the wrong side of history while it repeats itself” and the Nuremburg Code. You are implying that life-saving vaccines during the worst pandemic we’ve seen in our lifetimes is the same as the atrocities committed by the Nazis in WWII. That’s in my opinion a both disgusting and ridiculous claim. Your post is a disgrace.

Vaccine mandates most certainly don’t violate the Nuremburg Code. You can decline being vaccinated. It may cost a healthcare professional their job, but they have every right to say no to the vaccine.

https://fullfact.org/health/nuremberg-code-covid/

[Orca, ADN, ASN, RN]

2 hours ago, Thanksforthedonuts said:

What’s reckless? She has a choice to decide if she is at risk for developing serious disease or death. 

She works around patients who are almost by definition immunocompromised. 

[jive turkey]

@Curious1997

I see a lot of angry people, angry medical professionals.  I certainly appreciate how you could be flabbergasted by a nurse that has the audacity to question getting vaccinated, mandates, and be misinformed about HIPAA.

So I have a real and genuine recommendation.  If one hasn't been created, maybe start an anti "anti-vaxxer" thread where everyone can come together and outwit each other talking smack about antivaxxers or ANYONE that doesn't just shut up and take the jab.  Hopefully, only vaccine supporters enter it and have a great laugh, let off some steam.   

[Alex Kowalcyk]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:05 PM, macawake said:

Vaccine mandates most certainly don’t violate the Nuremburg Code. 

Coercion, fraud, and/or deceit in relation to informed consent for participating in human medical experimentation is a violation of the Nuremberg Code.

[toomuchbaloney]

1 minute ago, Alex Kowalcyk said:

Coercion, fraud, and/or deceit in relation to informed consent for participating in human medical experimentation is a violation of the Nuremberg Code.

You have zero evidence of any of those things occurring relative to the covid vaccines. Your active and paranoid imagination isn't evidence of anything except your flawed reasoning.  

[macawake, MSN]

39 minutes ago, Alex Kowalcyk said:

Coercion, fraud, and/or deceit in relation to informed consent for participating in human medical experimentation is a violation of the Nuremberg Code.

First of all, it’s not human medical experimentation. The vaccines are approved for emergency use after having gone through phase 1-3 clinical trials where they were found to be safe and effective. Participation in the clinical trials was voluntary. The mRNA vaccines will likely receive full approval within the next couple of months. 

Regarding your claim about coercion, fraud or deceit, you haven’t provided any evidence that would suggest any of those are true. They are not. No one in the U.S. is forced to take the vaccine. People will only get vaccinated if and when they consent. 

You insisting that the Nuremburg Code is applicable, doesn’t make it so. 

I think your efforts to try to scare people away from life-saving vaccines are deplorable and your attempt to liken them to the horrific misdeeds perpetrated against human beings during WWII, is obscene.