Sutter Health New Grad program unpaid.

Nurses New Nurse

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Hey everyone, so I'm being offered a job through Sutter Health affiliate hospital and I've been told that they've changed the New Grad programs to being 3 months of unpaid training. I will be treated as an employee while I work, but just not get paid. I won't be contracted with the hospital at this time, and if I decided I wanted to leave, I can. But if I stay throught the whole training, I will be offered a full time position. I was told that this was the way Sutter decided to do things to save themselves money from training New Grads and then them leaving after they get their year experience.

Has any of you heard of this before? And what are your thoughts? I am grateful for having this job offer, just somewhat shocked at the no pay thing.

[color=#003572]breezy,

[color=#003572]thank you for bringing this question up. it's a good one. and i am sorry that it wasn't answered better when you were offered the internship.

[color=#003572]the program at sutter delta medical center is a trial of an internship program and is not an employment opportunity. we are not hiring you (or anyone else) as part of this program. we are simply helping new grads gain the experience they need to find a job by offering them an unpaid internship. it's designed to help people like [color=#1f86ff]floridanursemom239, who said this on july 10:[color=#003572]

[color=#00b050]"so now that i am officially licensed, i am [color=#00b050]looking for a job and everyone wants people with experience. why??? how do experienced nurses get experience?? can someone tell me this?? especially if no one will give them a chance. i am so frustrated...."[color=#00b050] (https://allnurses.com/graduate-nurse-forum/so-stinkin-frustrated-406798.html#post3739459)

[color=#003572]the current economy is hard on everyone, but as a nurse who was once in your shoes, i am happy that sutter delta is offering this internship in an effort to help get you and other potential nurses started in this wonderful and rewarding career.

[color=#003572]is it slave labor? no! we are not forcing you into this position. we are not even asking you to commit to finishing it. we're simply offering you a chance to get the experience that hospitals are demanding so you can find a paid position. we know many acute facilities will only hire nurses with acute care experience. with more and more hospitals being forced to slash their new grad programs due to the economy, the [color=#003572]staff here at sutter delta is trying to explore another alternatives[color=#003572] in order to help new [color=#003572]nurses get the hands on experience they need to succeed in their career. many other industries also offer unpaid internships to gain the invaluable knowledge and hands on experience needed to succeed, so the concept is not really a new one we are using. unlike other industries, such as a pr intern who gets all of the grunt work, this program is designed to give you specialized training to ensure you gain the breadth of experience needed to succeed in this market. [color=#003572]personally, i think it is great that they are willing to allow us to do this trial program.

breezy, [color=#003572]i'm sorry if this was confusing to you and those who weighed in on this forum[color=#003572]. m[color=#003572]ore about the program is listed [color=#003572]on sdmc's website [color=#1f86ff]http://www.sutterdelta.org/newgrad/nurseinternship.html or contact me directly with any additional questions or concerns you may have.

[color=#003572]pat johnson - sdmc clinical educator

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Most place will not accept an unpaided internship as professional nursing experience. To me it seems like a scheme to get free help. The RNs take all the risk and give free labor and their is not even a position available after completing the program.

If you feel that RNs need clinical experience speak up to the Board of Nursing and ask that nursing education include an internship.

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This topic really should be in an area where there are more frequent visitors that will see it.

This potentially could have an impact on the way hospitals start treating new graduates in the future.

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Specializes in Vascular Surgery.

There are a few threads about this topic floating around. Lets remember that this is nothing new. Hospitals would do this all the time with new nurses--require unpaid 'internships'. At the end of the internship the hospital found a new batch of 'new grad interns' and disposed of the old like used linens. Unfortunately this practice of unpaid 'interns' will become more prevalent in the future. Case in point - here's a screen shot from an email I received last week:

3774509412_4004265c55_o.png

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We had a system were nurses had plenty of clinical traiining, it was called a diploma program. I feel that once a nurse has obtained the status of RN they should be paid.

Next will be, an experienced nurse wants to switch jobs, the hospital will asked for an unpaided " trial " period to see if the fit is right.

And while this is going on Congress has a bill to import foreign nurses to help the "emergency" shortage. Moist of the foreign grads have no professional nursing expereince. Some are trying to come over on a H1B visa which is for advanced practice or upper management and these foreign nurses are not advanced practice and have no specilalized skills. ( I know there are some foreiign grads practicing in the USA now who have very special skill sets and certifications I am not speaking of these nurses - I am talking about nurses who have 0-1 year experience.

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Fascinating link! As a new Grad, I have been more educated about preserving our profession by reading it!

Someone on this link talked about Doctors and the existing internship system in place upon their licensure and graduation...

i think that is a PERFECT point. If these hospitals want to tell MOST new grads that they cannot get hired even for a general med/surg job unless they have 1-2 years experience, because they feel new grads take more time and effort to train, fine. (I was told the other day on the phone by a recruiter that i would need more guidance for decision making but i thought the NCLEX was supposed to evaluate my competency and safety in decision making as an entry level RN?)..Anyway, I am fine with the more training--I am sure that many new grads can tell you that it would have been good to get more clinical.. OK, well then why the heck isnt there some kind of standard system in place for this transition like the doctors have? (Just in numbers more nurses are needed in the hospital then doctors) And please do not tell me that overnight new grads are not capable of hospital work when a year ago it wasn't a problem...Most of our nursing programs are tailored to prepare us for hospital work! There is something fundamentally wrong (nothing new here) with this picture that the average waiting list just to get into nursing school is 3 years..and yet we make it through all that time, money and sacrifice and there is nothing for us!! I'd like to know which professional organization i should speak to to address this issue, lol. But as usuall who is taken advantage of but poor/young people with few resources and knowledge to do anything about it.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

I completely understand everyone's reaction and outrage re: the Sutter program. However -- it is not in violation of any labor laws if the 3-month period is set up as a formal training program. Labor laws are structured to provide protection to "employees". The participants in the program would be classified as participants/students - not employees. Of course, there would have to be clear limitations as to what the participants could do during this period of time. They could perform tasks under the supervision of an employee. They could not provide independent care nor assume responsibility for any patient care.

I am not saying it's morally right -- just that it would not be illegal.

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I completely understand everyone's reaction and outrage re: the Sutter program. However -- it is not in violation of any labor laws if the 3-month period is set up as a formal training program. Labor laws are structured to provide protection to "employees". The participants in the program would be classified as participants/students - not employees. Of course, there would have to be clear limitations as to what the participants could do during this period of time. They could perform tasks under the supervision of an employee. They could not provide independent care nor assume responsibility for any patient care.

I am not saying it's morally right -- just that it would not be illegal.

As a student you are not an independent practitioner. In this setting you are working as professional without any protections.

What happens if you injure yourself? Or make a med error?

If these participants can't provide care they are not gaining experience and are just getting in the way of care.

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[color=#003572]breezy,

[color=#003572]thank you for bringing this question up. it’s a good one. and i am sorry that it wasn’t answered better when you were offered the internship.

[color=#003572]the program at sutter delta medical center is a trial of an internship program and is not an employment opportunity. we are not hiring you (or anyone else) as part of this program. we are simply helping new grads gain the experience they need to find a job by offering them an unpaid internship. it’s designed to help people like [color=#1f86ff]floridanursemom239, who said this on july 10:

[color=#00b050]“so now that i am officially licensed, i am [color=#00b050]looking for a job and everyone wants people with experience. why??? how do experienced nurses get experience?? can someone tell me this?? especially if no one will give them a chance. i am so frustrated....”[color=#00b050] (https://allnurses.com/graduate-nurse-forum/so-stinkin-frustrated-406798.html#post3739459)

[color=#003572]the current economy is hard on everyone, but as a nurse who was once in your shoes, i am happy that sutter delta is offering this internship in an effort to help get you and other potential nurses started in this wonderful and rewarding career.

[color=#003572]is it slave labor? no! we are not forcing you into this position. we are not even asking you to commit to finishing it. we’re simply offering you a chance to get the experience that hospitals are demanding so you can find a paid position. we know many acute facilities will only hire nurses with acute care experience. with more and more hospitals being forced to slash their new grad programs due to the economy, the [color=#003572]staff here at sutter delta is trying to explore another alternatives[color=#003572] in order to help new [color=#003572]nurses get the hands on experience they need to succeed in their career. many other industries also offer unpaid internships to gain the invaluable knowledge and hands on experience needed to succeed, so the concept is not really a new one we are using. unlike other industries, such as a pr intern who gets all of the grunt work, this program is designed to give you specialized training to ensure you gain the breadth of experience needed to succeed in this market. [color=#003572]personally, i think it is great that they are willing to allow us to do this trial program.

breezy, [color=#003572]i’m sorry if this was confusing to you and those who weighed in on this forum[color=#003572]. m[color=#003572]ore about the program is listed [color=#003572]on sdmc’s website [color=#1f86ff]http://www.sutterdelta.org/newgrad/nurseinternship.html or contact me directly with any additional questions or concerns you may have.

[color=#003572]pat johnson - sdmc clinical educator

ms johnson,

i hope every intelligent gn tells you what you can do with this "program". this crap about this solves the problem about getting experience....is just that....crap.

this is usury plain and simple. no employer is going to count that "free" experience as professional and the potential employer wants 1 yr experience to boot.

you can manipulate the language as much as you want but this "used car" sales pitch is demeaning to all graduate nurses and a chance for your hospital to get valuable educated nurses and use them as your unpaid slave labor.

"other industries"....what industries? if you are going to make such a statement, you need to back it up. (not that i would go anywhere near your hospital!)

one other thing.....who is protecting the gn's backside during their slavery? do they have to get their own insurance too? too easy to throw them under the bus!

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Specializes in Tele, CVIU.

I work for Sutter and I've never heard of this. I personally wouldn't work as a nurse for free. Well I'm doing this now as a 3rd semester RN student! I've talked to nursing recruiters here and they have NEVER mentioned a new grad program that doesn't pay. Is this in the Bay Area?

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frankly i wouldnt have a problem with new grads getting paid less...with increases say at 3/6/9 months....after all they arent carrying the same load, nor should they be. and this would make them less unacttractive to employers.

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Isn't the climate just incredible? I'm glad to hear the voice of experience and reason here: "can this be legal?" "I'd flip burgers before working as an RN for free!"

At the same time, I see how these programs are appealing. I live in the Bay Area, and for those new grads who can't move out of the area [husband/house/mortgage/kids/etc] and who don't want a job in a SNF [these are drying up locally too,] the prospect of a new grad program, half baked or otherwise, that will boost your resume at the program's hosp or another local hosp is appealing. Your family gets to continue to bear the burden of your staying in school an extra 3 months, but it is better than waiting a year for the market to soften. I'm eyeballing the burger joints myself, and yet I realize: how long will I be without using my nursing skills if I don't take a job/program such as this.

Bleh, we are in a bit of a lurch. Yep, it's slave labor, and I do sympathize with how it's appealing to some people in states/locales with really competitive markets. Good luck, Breeze! Good luck all of us! I hope that an equally attractive alternative arises for you [and me!]

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