Supporting your black friend: "Black pain as Back pain"

[TempRNce]

I've noticed some difficulty on this site (and everywhere), in treating black people (and other minorities) with compassion when they seek advice about how to cope with racism, bias or isolation due to their minority status. For some reason it seems to be difficult for some to offer the kindness and support that they would offer in any other situation.

I think it might be helpful, to respond to reports of racism/bias/isolation in the same way you would respond to reports of chronic back pain. I thankfully don't suffer from back pain, but from what I hear from those who do, it is nearly impossible to understand unless you have felt it. You might not see it on an x-ray, but you know it's there.

I know this is not a perfect analogy, but I think it's a good guideline to use if you are truly interested in understanding and supporting someone, and having a real conversation. I suspect these rules can apply for any minority, but I can only speak from my own perspective as a black person. (FYI, if you have black friends who have never mentioned the existence of racism or its effect on them, they most likely consider you an acquaintance).

"Black Pain as Back Pain": Providing support

1. If someone tells you their back is in pain, believe them. Don't tell them it doesn't/shouldn't hurt. Don't explain why you think it it is illogical for them to be feeling pain; they have heard your explanation more times than you can imagine, and it did not help.
   
2. Recognize their experience. Do not ask the person if they have considered the possibility that the pain is actually in their shoulder, or foot, or ear, as if they have never felt pain in those places and could not distinguish the difference.
   
3. Don't assume that the person is blaming you personally for their pain, or implying that because you don't have pain in your back, you have never experienced any pain of your own.
   
4. Don't judge them for how they are dealing with the pain, and don't provide a list of things you think they have done to bring the pain upon themselves. Don't tell them they must want to be in pain.
   
5. Don't compare your sprained ankle, sore elbow, broken tailbone to their back pain in an attempt to prove your expertise and force them to take your advice.
   
6. Don't talk about your other "friend" who has back pain but doesn't complain about it, or your friend who also fell down but doesn't have any back pain.
   
7. Don't complain about how you are tired of all the focus on back pain, and don't use this moment to grouse about all the back pain sufferers who are faking it to game the system
   
8. If the person ever asks you not to lean on them/bump into them as it aggravates their back pain, just agree not to do it again. Do not get indignant and insist that you are not a sadist. Do not tell the person that since you didn't intend to hurt them, you could not have caused pain. Do not recount the volunteer work you have done at the spinal pain institute for children. Do not turn the conversation to how they are causing YOU pain by telling you about their own.
   
9. Using what you have learned about back pain from what your friend has shared, pass this knowledge along to others who may have some of the same misconceptions you once did.
   

Please respond. But please, if you are going to respond with some variation of the above, take the time to explain why you think it's a helpful thing to say to someone.

[leslie :-D]

i can't say i agree with your request.

it just appears disingenuous to respond to anyone, according to a chartful of guidelines.

with hundreds of thousands of members here, there are just as many unique personalities.

besides, if we all decided to oblige, we'd be nothing but an audience of sheep.

i also think it's important to have dialogue as to how we see different situations.

i certainly do not appreciate those who are just plain obnoxious and rude...blow those people off.

but exchanging ideas/thoughts is critical in enhancing communication as well as defining who we are as individuals.

i've read threads where many definitely agreed with the op, and supported them throughout the thread.

and there were just as many that didn't...that is their right to disagree...

and most had and expressed their reasons.

i just fully believe that meaningful and truthful dialogue is important...as long as it is respectful.

but if i disagree with the op (whether she is black or not), i just will not stifle myself in order to appease her.

i can't, won't, and shouldn't.

support is earned and gained by listening to concern, respecting said concern, and accepting their thoughts as equally valid as yours.

it isn't gained by following guidelines.

however, i do very much appreciate your protectiveness of those you deem as needing help/support.

with peace.:)

leslie

[TempRNce]

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean for people not to respond freely, I just meant that all of the "Dont's" were things that seem clearly not helpful or supportive, so using one of them would have been pointless, UNLESS someone was able to say why they think it IS helpful or supportive or useful or whatever.

I admit I wasn't in the happiest of moods when I wrote this, but I certainly didn't mean to suggest that people don't have a right to their opinions. All I mean was that those responses are common, and generally speaking, not helpful or kind.

I thought that presenting them in this way would make it clearer just how counterproductive these types of statements really are. Did you find the list itself offensive?

Said another way, if the list was genuinely written as a guideline for supporting sufferers of back pain, would it still be problematic?

[leslie :-D]

I apologize, I wasn't clear. I didn't mean for people not to respond freely, I just meant that all of the "Dont's" were things that seem clearly not helpful or supportive, so using one of them would have been pointless, UNLESS someone was able to say why they think it IS helpful or supportive or useful or whatever.

I admit I wasn't in the happiest of moods when I wrote this, but I certainly didn't mean to suggest that people don't have a right to their opinions. All I mean was that those responses are common, and generally speaking, not helpful or kind.

I thought that presenting them in this way would make it clearer just how counterproductive these types of statements really are. Did you find the list itself offensive?

Said another way, if the list was genuinely written as a guideline for supporting sufferers of back pain, would it still be problematic?

i'm sorry temp, but i'm just not agreeing.

it's interesting in #4, part of the statement you wrote, "...and don't provide a list of things you think they have done to bring the pain upon themselves."

yet ironically, here you are providing a list of "dont's".

suggestions are fine, yet your guidelines are subjective: this is how you feel, not necessarily others.

the list itself isn't "offensive", but i am not convinced it was necessary.

the only way i could see someone taking offense, is if it's perceived that we're too stupid to understand what you're saying to us in the first place...

and that you had to use back pain as the analogy.

as i stated, i just wouldn't randomly follow your list of dont's.

some of these suggestions could be seen as enabling someone who already is feeling like a victim, and i wouldn't choose to enable them by agreeing, or walking on shells.

ea situation is unique, yet you believe that applying these 'rules' to all (black) situations, is the answer.

if i don't respond this way to anyone else, why would i do so with black people?

i agree some people can be totally insensitive in their responses, but i assure you, they're just as insensitive with any other poster, regardless of color,creed, age, etc.

i would truly suggest that as you read different threads, if you encounter a post that applies to this type of situation (where you feel a black person is being treated unfairly), then definitely speak up.

but i don't suggest a one-size-fits-all answer to this.:)leslie

[TempRNce]

...i would truly suggest that as you read different threads, if you encounter a post that applies to this type of situation (where you feel a black person is being treated unfairly), then definitely speak up.

but i don't suggest a one-size-fits-all answer to this.:)leslie

Here are examples (excerpts, direct quotes with emphasis added) of how variations of these unhelpful responses were used in the recent "black nurses and students" thread (https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/black-nurses-students-622935.html) - I left out the names of those quoted, I hope this does not prompt a #8 .

#1. "Is this a joke?"

"Isolation can be a devastating feeling but make sure its real and not something youve put into your own mind due to past experiences."

#2. "I can understand your feelings here but why do you assume you feel this way only because the color of your skin? As a white middle age lady I can't begin to tell you how many times in life I have felt difficulty in connecting with a group of people. I'm pretty sure lots of people feel this from time to time no matter what their skin color is."

#3. "Racism is a two way street. Just saying, it is possible for people in the "majority" to experience it."

"Unfortunatley discrimination happens everywhere, not only to blacks, and not only in nursing."

#4. "The moment you had the thought that your class lacked "diversity" you isolated yourself."

"I think you will begin to feel more isolated when you point it out and start making a big deal about it. Color doesn't matter."

#5. "In my Nursing Program 1/2 the class were White American and 1/2 were African American. We were all over worked, underpaid and struggling to pass the courses. Color had nothing to do with how well we did"

#6. " My best friend in nursing school happened to be black; I'd known her since 7th grade. And it wasn't an issue for anyone"

#7. "Also, you have people like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton creating race issues where there are no race issues, because racism is very profitable for them. This also encourages more cries of racism"

It even shocked me a little how easy it was to find examples. But this shows you it's not matter of stupidity, it's a matter of privilege. And the truth is most people would not readily tell someone with chronic back pain that they were being a victim, or that they were wrong for hurting. It misses the point, it's unhelpful, and unkind.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

I don't understand the point of this post really.

Have you back pain and/or have u been discriminated against? You sound very bitter.

Since we can't give out medical advice - please see your GP/PCP.

And since we aren't allowed to be racist, complain to your boss/police if anyone has been racist towards you.

What IS the point of your post??

[TempRNce]

I don't understand the point of this post really.

Have you back pain and/or have u been discriminated against? You sound very bitter.

Since we can't give out medical advice - please see your GP/PCP.

And since we aren't allowed to be racist, complain to your boss/police if anyone has been racist towards you.

What IS the point of your post??

I wanted to post a guide for people on how to support their black friends if a topic like this comes up. The point is that you treat the black person's pain as you would ANY OTHER kind of pain, e.g. back pain.

I'm sure I am a little bitter. It's frustrating to suffer from daily pain and have to smile through it because it offends those who are causing it.

"We aren't allowed to be racist" is an interesting way to phrase it.

[RNGO4IT]

I totally get where you're coming from and even though you articulate well and made a nice analogy you were shot down. Anyone that thinks racism doesn't exist is only kidding themselves...however if you haven't experienced s a black person you really can't understand...the usual response...I have a lot of black friends or my best friend is black.

Age or gender discrimination is not the same. No one has to stir up racial debate and strife...its always there...it doesn't matter that we have a black president. I have been an RN with over 31 yrs exp. I will never forget my instructor telling me maybe you would like to consider being a lpn...what was the basis for that, considering I graduated with honors and started college at 16. I know I work as Supervisor for a clinic that is in urban Detroit, MI...there are approximately 59 clinics...out of these clinics there are 3 black supervisors they all have MSN...the other clinics are ran by white RNs with associate, diploma and a few bsns. The thing is we could debate this subject forever....the bottom line is validate people and don't belittle there perception of there experience. i wouldn't tell my Jewish friend that discuss about the holocaust that it was no big deal b/c my ancestors had to live with slavery for longer period of time and still experience racism sometimes overtly and sometimes not. I don't allow race to hold me back; however I don't belittle ppl who bring the discussion to the forefront...must ppl are uncomfortable with the topic even though we claim to be more culturally aware.

[tntrn, ASN, RN]

We could go the other way, too, and have give some leeway to those who are accused of being racist, simply for disagreeing, or without any real evidence that they are.

[patricew]

I, a 56 yr old white woman, think this is an EXCELLENT post and analogy. I never thought I was a racist, or that I was brought up in an area that had racism....until I took a required course in seminary about the "ism's" : racism, sexism, classism, etc. It was an eye opener. I've never learned more in any other class I've ever taken. It was and is amazing to me how subtle racism can be.

[TempRNce]

We could go the other way, too, and have give some leeway to those who are accused of being racist, simply for disagreeing, or without any real evidence that they are.

You are changing the subject (see #3 and #7), but that's expect I don't think anyone would have a problem giving someone leeway if they are accused of being racist just for disagreeing, but is that always what's happening? I'll quote Melissa Harris Perry here:

"...The implication is if one cannot produce irrefutable evidence of clear, blatant and intentional bias, then racism must be banned as a possibility. But this is both silly as an intellectual claim and dangerous as a policy standard.

In a nation with the racial history of the United States I am baffled by the idea that non-racism would be the presumption and that it is racial bias which must be proved beyond reasonable doubt. More than 100 years of philosophical, psychological and sociological research that begins, at least, with the work of W.E.B. Du Bois has mapped the deeply entrenched realities of racial bias on the American consciousness. If anything, racial bias, not racial innocence is the better presumption when approaching American political decision-making. Just fifty years ago, nearly all white Democrats in the US South shifted parties rather than continuing to affiliate with the party of civil rights. No one can prove that this decision was made on the basis of racial bias, but the historical trend is so clear as to require mental gymnastics to imagine this was a choice not motivated by race."

That's a lot to read (unless you're interested in learning other perspectives), but the gist is that most often, racism can't be proven, but are you really in the best position to assess it?

[RNnbakes]

OP, those who get your post get it. Those who dont,